A few weeks ago, a friend emailed me and said:
“I just got off the phone with John Jaquish, PhD, the inventor of something
. He is an inventor, author, and scientist who
stumbled upon his life’s mission to promote bone health and advance osteogenic
loading research after his mother was diagnosed with osteoporosis. Determined to
help her and others suffering from musculoskeletal conditions and pain, John
developed amazing biotechnology devices that increase bone density, strengthen
muscles, and improve stability while reducing injury risk.”
The email went on to describe how you could use John’s research to increase your
bone density in just 10 minutes a week, and how you can put on more muscle in
less time by leveraging John’s biomedical engineering wisdom—and this thing
that he invented.
So I looked into Dr. Jaquish, and also got an
for myself to
play around with. Turns out, he began his experience in life sciences after
being told by his Mother that she had been diagnosed with osteoporosis. John, in
an effort to help his mother, created a device to place axial loading through
bone to safely cause osteogenic loading events. The device was to trigger the
effects of high-impact loading, but without the risk of injury.
After successfully reversing his Mother’s osteoporosis, as part of his doctoral
dissertation in biomedical engineering research at Rushmore University, he
conducted four years of testing with human subjects focused on user comfort,
biomechanics, and optimal musculoskeletal stimulation. Next, the device he
designed was put into production, and has since been placed in over 240 clinics
worldwide. Osteogenic loading has now helped over 12,000 individuals with their
bone health. Published data has shown, treatment with this osteogenic loading
device has resulted in over 14% gains in bone density in both the spine and hip
over one year of once-weekly treatment.
Dr. Jaquish is currently advancing osteogenic loading research and speaking
worldwide about its implications, as well as developing other biotechnology
devices and products that will aid in the advanced health and wellbeing of
people all around the world. He currently sits on the Board of Directors of
American Bone Health, and the editorial boards of the Journal of Steroids and
Hormonal Science, and Diabetes Open.
During our discussion, you’ll discover: #
How John developed an osteogenic loading device to fix his mother’s
came to be invented and the fascinating science
behind it… 12:56
The use of variable resistance training to get 3x increases in power and
The special kind of elastic bands that John integrated into the
The effect of variable resistance training on growth hormone and testosterone…
What kind of workouts you would do on it if you’re doing the 10 minute workout
once per day… 49:05
What John’s 10 minute 1x/day workout looks like… 50:31
Ways that you can “biohack” variable resistance training with tools such as
vibration, blood flow restriction, balance board… 58:29
Full Transcript #
[00:00] Introduction/Weekly Roundup/FourSigmatic
[07:40] How John Developed an Osteogenic Loading Device
[12:56] How the
Came to be Invented
[20:25] The Use of Variable Resistance Training to Get 3x Increases in Power and
[23:50] The Special Kind of Elastic Bands that John Integrated Into the
[32:37] Birdwell Beach Britches/Organifi
[36:13] The Effect of Variable Resistance Training on Growth Hormone and
[49:05] What Kind of Workouts you Would Do on It if You’re Doing the 10 Minute
Workout Once Per Day
[50:31] What John’s 10 minute 1x/day Workout Looks Like
[58:29] Ways That you Can “biohack” Variable Resistance Training with Tools
[1:03:26] End of Podcast
Ben: Hey, it’s Ben Greenfield. Would you like to get a weekly email from me? A
roundup that gives you all the new discoveries of the week, the cool new things
I’ve tried, books I’m reading, new biohacks I’m experimenting with, things I’ve
done that may or may not give me explosive diarrhea or better cognition or
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in on the weekly roundup that comes out every Friday. So check it out, it’s all
new kitchen tools, foods, supplements, recipes, little hacks, recently I’ve
actually been using a high amount of Gerolsteiner Sparkling Water which is very
high in sodium bicarbonate, as a lactate buffer throughout the day and to get
all the alkalotic benefits of sodium bicarbonate. As simple as that, a bunch of
sparkling water. So that’s just one example of what you’ll get in my weekly
roundup, how to spend a bunch of money on sparkling water… no, there’s a lot
more in there along with a whole host of entertaining snippets from my weeks.
Check it out, the weekly roundup, just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com and sign
up for that.
Now in today’s podcast, I’m gonna be interviewing my friend John Jaquish. We’re
gonna be talking about how to massively increase your bone density and your
muscle with just 10 minutes a day. He’s got this really cool exercise tool and
exercise strategy that we’re gonna talk about. So if you wanna get swoll or
maintain muscle, build some lean muscle, stay strong when you’re travelling, all
sort of ways you can use this. So have fun listening in to me and John chat.
In this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Show:
“…and I always thought as dedicated as I am to training, this sucks. I really
didn’t get much out of it and so as I was doing this bone density research, I
said, I know that there’s a trigger here for muscular growth.” “And as I started
doing this research and realizing that we need to just get rid of the weight and
double down on the variable resistance, I thought I was just gonna write another
book.” “Two workouts in, I could barely move my wrists and I could barely move
my ankles. I was in pain.”
Ben: Hey folks, it’s Ben Greenfield, and a few weeks ago, one of my buddies
emailed me and told me that he had just talked with this guy named John Jaquish
who has a PhD and invented this bar. Not like a bar that you eat, but a bar that
you train with. And this guy’s an inventor and an author and a scientist who
stumbled upon a way to get fit really, really fast while he was doing some
pretty advanced osteogenic loading research, how to increase bone density really
effectively. And he developed this protocol, I believe you were working… were
you working with your mother, John?
John: Yeah, this whole thing was developed, right.
Ben: Yeah for his mom, that’s so sweet. And anyways, so John develops this
amazing biotechnology devices to increase bone density and strengthen muscle and
improve stability, and I got my hands on one of these bars that he created, it’s
, to play around with myself. Speak of the devil, I
actually have it in my hand right now, I’m standing on the platform with the
band attached, and while we’re podcasting today, John, I actually as I’ve done
before when I’ve used this thing in airports and here in my office when I want
kind of like a minimalist, quick, ten-minute workout, I’m actually doing my
workout while we’re talking. How cool is that? I mean I figured if there’s one
guy I could work out to while I’m podcasting, it’s you. So if you hear me
grunting, I’m not taking a dump while I’m interviewing you, I’m working out.
Ben: Just to clear that up.
John: Yeah, I actually just did another podcast, it’s called the Motor Cop, and
there’s a video component of it and so they wanted me to do a set to complete
fatigue, and I could barely breathe. It really does wipe you out.
Ben: Oh it does. We can talk about this later but I’ve got one protocol that I
do where… this totally sounds like some dumb biohacking exercise that I’m sure
any powerlifter would snicker at, but it works for me. I stand on a vibration
platform with your bar set up on top of the vibration platform and I do,
specifically the deadlift and the squats-overhead press, and dude it just wipes
me clean because you’re fighting against the variable resistance that we’ll talk
about here in a second, but then also having to deal with all the tiny, little
proprioceptive cues from the vibration, and dude, it’s a pretty crazy way to
train. The other thing I’ve done, I didn’t tell you about this but I have one of
these… it’s almost like, have you seen a balance board, like a fluid stance or a
waddle board or any of those before?
John: Oh yeah, fantastic.
Ben: Yeah, I’ll set this on top of that so I’m actually having to balance while
at the same time I’m doing so on that, I’ll do curls or upright rows or squats.
So I’ve been playing around with this and figuring out a lot of ways to make it
even harder or enhance it even more, so…
John: I will… I’m so glad you brought that up. You’re surging growth hormone
while you’re doing that. I didn’t even send you the study but…
Ben: Wait, what, with the vibration platform or with the balance?
John: They work the same.
John: I did a meta-analysis on that. We’ll talk about that…
Ben: Okay, let’s get into that. I won’t forget to come back to my little tweaks
on this thing. Tell me first of all about your mom and this concept of
osteogenic loading and how you actually came to get into this concept of almost
biohacking bone density?
John: Yeah, so I was 20 at the time and my mother when I came home from
undergrad and I was looking for something to eat and to get my laundry done like
most kids, and so my mom was pretty upset and I could see that on her face. And
I said “what’s going on?” and she said “well, I’m gonna die.” My mother’s very
dramatic so I’d heard that before, but I said “why?” and she said “well I was
diagnosed with osteoporosis today.” And I thought “okay that’s a real thing.”
John: So I said “let me do some reading about it” and I was majoring in
marketing at the time and playing Division-1 rugby so I wasn’t focused on
medicine at all. But as I began to read, and this process took months and
months, where I looked at who built superhuman bone density.
John: There’s a group, there was one group and it’s very distinct: it is
gymnasts. The rate at which they hit the ground is incredible.
Ben: Gymnasts, really?
John: Gymnasts, yeah. When they dismount from the uneven bars, they can get ten
times their body weight.
Ben: That’s crazy, except the little, skinny, anorexic ones, right? They
probably don’t have great bone density.
John: Well some of them have overtraining issues and eating disorders and is why
they actually fracture a lot.
John: But they’re still going through these very high loads. There’s no way you
can dismount from the uneven bars and not get 6/7/8 times your body weight. It
doesn’t mean there aren’t other things, like orthopedic surgeons will tell you
the most fascinating people to work on is gymnasts but they’re also right on the
edge of incredible damage.
Ben: Right, same reason but in reverse why an astronaut would have poor bone
density. They’re not getting any loading, they’re not getting any impact, they
probably also don’t have gymnastics equipment in space. But it makes sense,
impact creates an osteogenic load that induces some kind of an osteoblastic cell
John: Right. So basically, what I did was I looked at this gymnastic research
and I said “okay, I need the benefit”… and I’ve been told by my professors, I
went and got my PhD in biomedical engineering after this. My professors all told
me “if you got your education first, you would have talked yourself out of this
because it’s so unconventional.” But what I did was I thought “okay, I’m gonna
build a device that gives the benefit of high impact without the risks.” So slow
and controlled loading in the impact ready position. So think, if you jump in
the air and land, there’s a 120 degree angle behind your knee…
John: We’re gonna isolate that and we’re gonna allow compressive force to go
through the lower extremities. And so my mother was using six times her body
weight after just a year of using the first prototype which I built in the
Ben: Wait, you mean the prototype of what I’m standing on right now? This is the
same thing you built for your mom?
John: No, no, no, no, no. Bone density device…
Ben: Okay, so this is different.
John: Oh yeah, yeah. They’re gigantic metal worth $100,000, computer screen on,
giving you biofeedback.
John: You can find them at OsteoStrong locations, there’s 54 clinics. I just got
back from an opening in Stockholm, where they opened the first one in Stockholm.
Ben: OsteoStrong. So this is the device that you created.
Ben: So if someone is suffering bone density, they can go find one of these
devices near their house and use it?
Ben: Okay, I’ll put a link to that. Oh by the way you guys, the links for today
are gonna be over at bengreenfieldfitness.com/tenminutes. You’ll learn why here
in a little bit, but go ahead, John.
John: Nice, I like that. So compressive force at far higher loads than anyone
would normally be able to get through even weight lifting, and this is why so
many post-menopausal females have bone density challenges and they say “but I
don’t understand, I’m a runner, I go through high impact.” Well, it wasn’t until
2012 where some researchers in Bristol, United Kingdom determined with
accelerometers and blood marker turnover tests where they would do a blood
analysis on a regular basis and look at their loading through the
accelerometers, where they were determining that in minimum of 4.2 multiples of
body weight going through your lower extremities to trigger any bone growth at
Ben: Oh, wow.
John: So that’s not gonna happen by lifting weights.
John: That’s gonna happen either through high impact or, at OsteoStrong
locations where there’s a controlled event where you’re safely loading and using
computerized biofeedback, and the machines are actually robotics so they really
calculate the right position for you and then allow you to expose a load in that
very optimized position.
Ben: Did you actually make this thing out in your garage for your mom or did you
have access to some kind of a production facility?
John: Well this took years.
John: And the initial prototypes… the first prototype had chains, wooden blocks,
duct taped towels to it to use as pads. So I threw all those away, I don’t even
want people to see what I did. My mother was very upset when I made her use it
coz it looked very scary. Now they look gorgeous.
John: In fact, Tony Robbins has a set.
Ben: I’m looking at the website. Yeah, Tony Robbins, Dave Asprey appears to be a
big fan of this thing, but yeah, looks pretty advanced. Looks far more advanced
than this thing that I’m using.
John: [laughs] Right. Well what’s interesting is the bone density research, the
whole time I was doing the bone density research and building those devices and
getting the robotics right and the mathematics right… I wrote a book called
Osteogenic Loading. So I looked at what was going on with bone and I thought
“gosh, we’re using really high forces” which tells me that humans are capable of
a lot more from a force production standpoint than we’re really getting in
weightlifting. In fact from a functional, which is the most misused word in
fitness, from a functional perspective, we almost choose our stronger range of
motion. When you run, you have 180 degrees of flexion available on your knee but
you only use 7 degrees.
John: Why is that? And when a fighter punches somebody, they don’t wanna punch
somebody one inch away from their face, they want it at almost full extension
within 120 degree of inclusion between the upper arm and lower arm.
Ben: Yeah, unless you’re Bruce Lee.
John: Right, exactly. But if you watch the way the rest of his body moves, he
does optimize his biomechanics… he twists his body.
John: So we all want to use our optimized ranges of motion, that’s just the way
our reflexes work. And then when we go into the gym, it’s like “no, I’m gonna
use a static load through the most compromised position and then in the
strongest position, too.” But that’s a thing, and as a sport of the bench press
and the squat and weightlifting and powerlifting and things like that which is
great, but if we want to be as strong as possible, we need to look at these
biomechanical variations. And when you read the research section of the
and look at what I came up with for muscle which is sort
of like the other side of the coin into the bone which is X3 Bar
thought “okay, this device is not even gonna be really expensive” but ultimately
what I looked at first was what Westside Barbell was doing.
Ben: Yeah, and you know what? Before we dive into how you developed this
after you developed this OsteoStrong unit, just to close the
loop on OsteoStrong. Basically what you’re saying is that the minimum for
required to trigger bone growth, for people who are listening who might have
osteopenia or osteoporosis, is about 4.2 times the body weight. And in order to
generate that amount of force safely in somebody who has osteoporosis, you need
to be on something like one of these machines that kinda walks you through
various ranges of motion. There’s like a leg press and like a pressing unit. It
almost looks like, are you familiar with these ARX machines that produce both
eccentric and concentric force.
John: Oh yeah. I’ve used it at Dave Asprey’s house.
Ben: Yeah, it seems kinda like that. Is it kind of a similar concept?
John: No. The ARX, you’re really wrestling with a motor.
John: And you’re going through a full range of motion, and the loads are not
very similar. For example, I put 4,000lbs through my legs when I use the
Ben: Oh, holy cow.
John: 21,000lbs through my upper extremities to compress bone.
John: And listen to this, I took a DEXA scan, I’m two standard deviations above
Ben: That’s crazy. Coz you’re getting this huge axial load that triggers bone
growth in the actual bone?
John: Right, massive. So I am fracture-proof.
Ben: And you can’t do that with a barbell? You can’t get that amount of bone
loading or is it more of the injury risk in someone with low bone density?
John: You know, there are some people who have done lockouts and really loaded
bars up, but would you really, in a power rack, would you really wanna get under
a thousand pound bar? If that power rack fails…
Ben: Yeah, I get it. So using a machine to generate copious amounts of force
that actually induce osteogenic load…
John: And when you use the OsteoStrong devices, you get to see exactly what your
maximum output is as opposed to choosing what to impose on yourself.
Ben: Right, coz there’s a computer dashboard that show you how much force you’re
John: Right, how much force you’re putting…
Ben: I’m gonna look for a place near my house. I’d love to go try to work out on
one of these coz in looking at your research, it looks like there’s a pretty
significant effect on muscle growth and also blood sugar and some other health
John: Well it’s creating a myofibril adaptation which ultimately creates more
receptor sites for insulin.
Ben: For people who don’t know what a myofibril adaptation is, explain that.
John: Density of cell as opposed to holding more fuel in the cell. There’s two
types of muscle growth, sarcoplasmic and myofibril. Sarcoplasmic is when you
sort of compound the path of the muscle, this is what most people who lift,
especially bodybuilding style, they are able to hold more glycogen, creatine,
phosphate and ATP in the cells.
John: So the cells become vehicles to hold more fuel for contraction.
John: Whereas people who absorb more explosive force like gymnasts, people who
use OsteoStrong, they’re gonna have a more dense cell.
Ben: Right, that’s actually pretty fascinating.
John: Yeah, you can do sarcoplasmic training and more myofibril type training.
Ben: Yeah, I do both, just for aesthetic reasons. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy or
sarcoplasmic training where this volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell
increases via a bodybuilding style training or a high weight-low rep style
training, or even like a blood flow restriction type of training with body
weight. That’s great for maintaining blood flow, for getting a metabolic
response to training and for just, whatever, looking good in a swimsuit with
your shirt off. But it’s also why body builders tend to be kind of weak relative
to the amount of muscle that they have coz a lot of the hypertrophy is just
sarcoplasmic fluid and it’s not an actual increase in the contractile proteins
like actin and myosin. I think… actually in my book Beyond Training, I talk a
little bit about this research that Paul Jaminet discusses in his book Perfect
Health Diet where he goes into longevity research in guinea pigs and this idea
that like the explosive, wirey, more like myofibrillar-based hypertrophy is
better for longevity, it’s better for strength. Like you want to…
John: It lasts.
Ben: Yeah, you wanna be more like a quick, explosive, wirey powerlifter and be
doing more of this either single set to failure training or heavy load training
versus the traditional bodybuilding-esque 12-15 reps to failure which I guess
would be a good segue into this bar. So I wanna get into that, how’d you come
from the osteogenic loading devices to developing this thing I’m standing on
John: So as I was doing the research, I had always been a generally disappointed
guy in the gym. I played Division-1 rugby, I was always athletic, I had access
to great strength coaches. I think all the weight I put on was really just
getting older. From the time I did wrestling, swimming and track in high school
and then rugby in undergrad, so I just… like 180lbs kinda guy, 6 feet tall… I
was fit. When I took my shirt off at the beach, people would be like “oh yeah,
you work out” but when I was wearing a shirt it would be like “okay, you’re just
a regular dude.”
John: And I always thought as dedicated as I am to training, this sucks. I
really didn’t get much out of it and so as I was doing this bone density
research, I said “I know that there’s a trigger here for muscular growth.” And
it’s not completely clear to me, but I can see with human capability in these
optimized ranges of motion, look at the loads I have elderly women putting
through their musculoskeletal system.
John: If those are the kind of forces that people are really capable of, then
we’re massively leaving on the table, or as the case may be, at the gym that we
just can’t get with standard fitness. So when I came across… somebody sent me a
link to Westside Barbell and was like “I think you need to take a look at what
these guys are doing, I think it may have some bearing on your research.” And
what they were doing is they would off load a little bit of weight for regular
weight training. Now they train weightlifters and… I dunno if powerlifters or
weightlifters, I’m not really in that space but they train people who are
participating of the sport of the squat, sport of the bench press, and the
deadlift… so, the main lifts. And they have these special racks to hook bands
to, so you have bands and the weight…
John: They off load some of the weight, so let’s say you’re holding a bench
press bar on your chest and that weight is x, and then as you extend, the weight
goes to 1.3x, and so I got that off of some of the writing that they have done.
Ben: Yeah, I actually… I dunno if I told you this but I used to be a bodybuilder
and I would use that a lot especially during squats and bench pressing, loop the
bands around the bars. And not only do you get a lot of kind of… the best way I
can describe it is like a shaking and almost like a dynamic movement of the bar
as you move it up and down, you gotta work a lot harder to control it but then
it presses against you a lot more. On the same side, you could say this about
gymnastics, right? One gymnast that I was working with who was teaching me the
muscle up, he simply used an elastic band to deload me and to help me get up
through a muscle up. So yeah, it could be used to load or to deload, but I yeah,
I first started using this kind of concept back when I was a body builder.
John: Right. And so they were doing something great now… they’re doing something
a little different than what I’m trying to do. They’re trying to make people
good at lifting free weights.
John: Whereas my objective with
was I don’t care about what I
bench press or what I squat. I’m 41 years old, I wanna be as strong as possible
and I wanna stay as strong as possible for the rest of my life. And so that’s
kinda where my head was when I was looking at what they did, and so I observed
what happened at Westside, and then somebody showed me a study in 2008. So I’ve
been working on that bone density thing for a long time, so they showed me 2008,
Professor Anderson and researchers took [0:24:57] __ athletes, split them
into two groups, had one group to the regular weight training, tested tem pre to
post for strength, and then had another group do something similar to what
Westside was doing. So less actual weight and then banded, and they grew muscle
three times fasted. Now that’s where I got the whole X3 Bar
but that’s not exactly what we’re doing because when I look at the two groups, I
say “okay, now I think I’ve got it.” Both groups were using weights, the group
that had the three times gains was using a little bit of variance. So let’s
ditch the weights and double down on the variants, because as I was seeing in my
research that I had just… when I was reviewing all this information just in
2015, published a study, wrote a protocol in the hospital that ran the study in
London, where loading postmenopausal women with 6/7/8/9 times body weight
through their hip joint. So I’m looking at what they’re doing and when I compare
that to the American College of Sports Medicine, loading data. When you look at
the American College of Sports Medicine says non-athletes’ versus athletes’ load
to their lower extremities, it’s 1.3 to 1.53 multiples of body weight.
John: We’re training with like 8-9 multiples body weight with deconditioned
John: That are over 50 years old.
John: And so I’m saying “okay, screw the weight, we don’t need the weight, what
we need is massive variance.”
Ben: Massive variance, like what do you mean, massive variance?
John: Like very low weight where your joint is compromised in a weak range of
motion, and much higher weight. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re beyond your
one rep maximum or anything like that, but a weight that is drastically
different in the strong range versus the weak range.
Ben: Now when you say the joint is compromised in a weak range of motion, what
do you mean?
John: Well, you don’t injure your shoulder when you’re at extension in a bench
press, it’s at the bottom. That’s it, the greatest risk of injury.
John: Right, that’s where you can potentially sublux a joint.
Ben: Coz you’re the weakest at the bottom?
John: Right, right. And ultimately, mechanically, if you’re lifting a static
weight in a conventional manner, you only go to fatigue in the weak range of
motion, hence we call it the weak range of motion.
John: And what do we know about the weak range of motion? You have the least
amount of muscle firing and the joint is at its greatest exposure for potential
Ben: Okay, so what I’m confused about here is when you’re talking about this
__ study where they compared people who trained with elastic and
they were producing… I looked at the study, there were like three times greater
response for the squat, three times greater response for the bench press, three
times the amount of power produced as a result or as a response to conventional
training, training with the elastic bands and this concept of very low
resistance versus traditional weight training. Are you saying that in that
study, not only were they using elastic bands but they were putting people into
their weakest range of motion?
John: Yeah, they were going full range.
Ben: Okay, so full range of motion but what you’re saying is when you add
elastic, it produces the greatest amount of stress when you’re in your weakest
range of motion?
John: No, no, no. What I’m saying… I understand the question now. When you lift
a static weight, the control group we’re talking about or anybody who’s doing a
regular bench press, you are limited by your weakest range of motion, that’s why
we call it that, right?
John: So in that weak range of motion, you have the least amount of muscle
firing and you have the greatest exposure to potential injury. So what they did
in that [0:28:54]
__ study is they off loaded that range of motion
slightly. So they use less weight on the bar, and then they use the elastic to
deliver more force in the stronger range of motion.
John: So like I said, x weight on the chest and then 1.3x at the top.
John: And then when I… it’s really important because some of the online trolls
will look at one sentence in one study and say “well, you’re not doing exactly
this so you’re wrong.” No, the reason we have multiple references is because I’m
pulling observations from multiple studies. So when you look at the Anderson
study and then you look at my study from London, and then you look at the
American College of Sports Medicine data, there’s a seven –fold difference from
weak range to strong range. So, why don’t we train that way? In fact, the
Anderson study and what’s going on at Westside Barbell is just scratching the
surface of what variance in resistance can do. So that’s when I came to the
conclusion “alright, get rid of the weights, just massive variance.”
Ben: Because the body can’t tell, especially muscle tissue or this myofibrillar
response for hypertrophy or for actin and myosin fiber growth. There is no
difference in the way that the body interprets a load if it is from say like
heavy tension-based elastic band versus a barbell made of iron.
John: Of course. Yeah, the muscle has no idea.
Ben: And there’s actually, correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there a greater
eccentric loading effect when you’re getting pulled back out of that range of
motion by elastic?
John: Not necessarily. There’s more stability priority for sure.
Ben: Okay, so it’s more of a proprioceptive cue than eccentric contraction? Coz
you’re trying to maintain it as it moves through space?
John: Right, so the protocol that I have people following that comes with the
product is that you go to fatigue in diminishing range. So let’s say you take
the heavy band, throw it around your back and go to do a chest press, and let’s
say you hit 15 repetitions at the top and… you’re 6’2”?
John: So you’re probably getting… I’m 6 foot so that’s 250lbs for me at peak, so
that might be 275lbs or something like that for you. Let’s say you hit that 15
times, now all of a sudden you can’t get to the top of that chest press anymore.
So you keep going and you’re doing half reps with let’s say 180lbs and you do
five more of those and now you can’t get to that range anymore, and your last
couple of repetitions may only be one inch in range of motion. Now you’ve
fatigued all ranged of motion simultaneously in one set.
John: So this is an absolute fatigue of muscle, this is not something you can do
with a weight.
Ben: Interesting. But you’re not changing the elastic band as you go through a
routine like that because your system… and we can explain this in a second, it
comes with multiple resistances of elastic bands you can use for each movement.
What you’re doing is you’re simply adjusting the range of motion that you’re
going through as the muscle becomes more and more fatigued?
Ben: Okay, got it.
Ben: I wanna get into here in a second how this thing is actually built, what it
looks like, but there’s also some really interesting research in addition to
this three-time greater increase in power that you talked about, and also the
increase in bone density and that would be the hormonal response which you
alluded to as I was talking about how I have it on a vibration platform or I’ll
use if when balancing. Talk to me about what you’ve found as far as the hormonal
response to… I guess you would call this the, is the technical term for this
Ben: Okay, tell me about the hormonal response to variable resistance training.
John: So the reason why, and let me just back up and look at how in strength
training with a lot of athletes that really need to perform on a field. We’re
not just talking bodybuilders here but, like in a football wait room you’ll see
a lot of power racks, you won’t see a lot of leg presses. I doubt you’ll ever
see a quad extension, right? And they noticed that there’s a lot of translation
from squat power on the field power whereas not so much for the other two types
of exercises. So if you look at, and there’ve been a few different studies
comparing the squat to a leg press, so if you look at what happens… obviously
you handle less weight on your back on the squat than you handle on a leg press.
However, you get 0% change in growth hormone levels pre to post with the leg
press. With the squat, when you do a 10 rep set, you’re making a 400% increase.
Actually, I think it’s 443% increase was the last study that I read on this. So
Henry Alkire, a researcher that I worked with, he’s with the company, we did a
meta-analysis together last summer. And what the meta-analysis we looked at was,
we’re trying to find out what this pituitary axis is to trigger growth hormone
upregulation. There’s a couple of them, you can fast to get more growth hormone,
you can get a really good night’s sleep, you have a higher resting growth
hormone. But growth hormone is fantastic, and I think recently on your show,
somebody referred to it as human repair hormone when you’re an adult, it doesn’t
really grow you, and… I forgot who that was you had on your show.
Ben: Probably the guy, I interviewed Dr. Richard Gains about growth hormone.
John: Yup, that’s him.
Ben: He’s the guy who does my dick injections and he’s also a big hormone
expert. And yeah, I think he described it as human repair hormone which makes
John: Yeah. Much, much better explanation coz people hear the word growth and be
like “I dunno, I didn’t grow anything, weird.”
John: So what Henry and I did was we found two different data sets that looked
at stabilization firing through exercise. And pre to post, and in some of the
groups, some of the data sets had control groups too. So either pre to post or
control to post tests, and in the meta-analysis, you take all the different data
sets you used to normalize them. I know you would know what that is but your
listeners might not. So we put all this research together and did a bunch of
statistical tests to determine, with the absolute highest level of statistical
significance, P value at 00001, that it’s stabilization firing has a massive
effect on growth hormone levels. The only thing that attenuates greater
upregulation of growth hormone is the weight that somebody is using. So if
you’re unstable and you’re doing a one-legged squat, you’re just lightly bending
one knee not all the way down, you’re gonna get a little bit. If you stand on a
vibration platform, you’re gonna get more, quite a bit more. If you’re using
and doing like an overhead press as you alluded to, your core
is firing at an incredible rate because when you get to the top of that pressing
movement, you’re holding a weight that you probably wouldn’t be able to get
there otherwise. So you’re holding a massive weight when your arms are at
extension over your head.
Ben: Yeah, that’s what I’ve noticed. My whole body shakes, my entire body shakes
like it wants to let that thing down. Far different than what I get if I had a
barbell over my head.
John: Right, because you’re handling a higher weight and not only higher weight,
more repetitions with a higher weight. I tell people “don’t be afraid to go 30
or 40 repetitions with
John: Yeah, coz you’re getting to a massive force.
Ben: Do you still get a myofibrillar response or once you get up to that high of
a rep range, is it just sarcoplasmic?
John: No, because when you fatigue the top range, you fatigue the stronger
range, you’re not running out of ATP, that’s not what the fatigue is. You’re
running out of contractile tissue so that’s a different stimulus.
John: So the body, when you go to fatigue in the stronger range of motion, so
the nervous system’s saying that “yeah, we need to actually have more protein
synthesis here. We gotta build more myofibrils, a denser tissue.”
Ben: Yeah, you’re training heavy into weak range of motion.
John: Well I mean at the top range, in the strong range and then when you get to
the weaker range of motion, that’s more of a sarcoplasmic effect.
Ben: Okay, so you’re doing both to a certain extent.
Ben: Yeah, coz I’ve definitely had that sarcoplasmic pump after working out with
this but I’ll be honest with you, I’m using heavier elastic bands and I’m only
doing 5-10 reps max when I’ve been using it and just going through… you sent me
a PDF with the basic exercises even though I know you have a full 12-week
program on the website where you get into everything from forced reps to
constant tension to I think you call reflexive warm up. You have a whole bunch
of stuff and that’s all, by the way for you guys listening in, that’s all for
free on his website if you just wanna go look at what this thing looks like when
you’re working out on it. And I’m gonna describe it here in just a second but
I’ll link to that, just go to bengreenfieldfitness.com/tenminutes. And again’
I’ll tell you why ten minutes in a second, but first, before we dive into that,
describe to people how this actually looks and why you included each of the
components that you did, because it’s basically three things: platform, a bar,
and bands. So I could throw this in a suitcase, or just keep it underneath my
desk or wherever, but describe to me why these three different components.
John: Right, and I’m glad you as question because a lot of people look at it and
they expected the whole thing to cost $30. And what they don’t realize, the bar
is designed to handle somewhere between 500 and 1,000lbs of force because you
handle a lot more weight in your stronger range of motion plus there’s small
bearing on each end so your grip is never compromised coz the bar swivels.
John: So that’s the equivalent of an Olympic bar.
Ben: It’s way different than just holding on to an elastic band.
John: Oh yeah, well the elastic band… so every once in a while I’m at a place
where I’m showing a group of people why I went to Gold’s Gym in Chicago. And I
started doing reps and somebody said “can’t I just do curls with a band?” and I
had them do a couple of curls with the bar, and I’m like “alright, now let’s
take the bar away.” And the guy said “oh my God, it’s like I’m gonna break my
wrists.” He can’t do the exercise.
John: You need a way to grab it. There’s a reason we train with bars and not
Ben: So component one is this bar with the ball bearings inside of it, and the
elastic bands kinda slip over the little hooks on either end of the bar.
Ben: And then they go down to this plate, and I’m standing on the plate right
now. Usually, until you send me one of these devices to mess around with, when
I’m training with an elastic band, like let’s say I’m gonna do upright rows, I
would stand on top of the band, not on top of a platform like this and use my
feet to hold the band down and then do an elastic row without the bar. And the
bar I could use way more force now that I’ve got this bar on my hands so I can
use a much heavier, elastic band. But then the plate itself, why do you have to
stand on this plate?
John: To protect your ankles, because if you’re doing a deadlift with a really
heavy band, and these bands go to hundreds of pounds.
Ben: Yeah, they’re heavy.
John: The height differentially makes a difference. You, being 6’2”, you’re
gonna have more because you stretch the band more. You’re gonna have a little
bit more force than somebody who’s 5’10”. But the point is, people are training
with 200-300lbs in a deadlift. If you try and step on a band that’s got
200-300lbs going through it, you will injure yourself.
Ben: Oh yeah, I’m doing deadlifts right now. Wait, I got this… so I got the bar
in my hand doing the deadlift, so I have a plate, there’s no way… and I’m only
using the second elastic band in terms of force. I know these things will go up
to 500lbs of force if I use that thick one back behind me, but even right now my
muscles are shaking as I’m at the top of my deadlift while I’m talking to you.
And my ankles would be hurting me right now if they were being used to support
John: It’s a process called neural inhibition, right? When you’re uncomfortable,
your body starts shutting your muscles down, like “what the hell are you doing,
stop doing that.”
John: The same reason why you put your hand in the fire and it snaps right back,
you don’t have to think about pulling it out of the fire, same kind of thing. So
it’s a body protective process, and as I started doing this research and
realizing that we need to just get out of the way and double down on the
variable resistance, I thought I was just gonna write another book. I thought I
was gonna write a book about band training and how much better it is than
weights and then I went, and it took some … I actually had to search out who had
really heavy resistance bands coz there’s not a lot of people who make heavy
resistance bands. And so I found a couple and started doing some exercises in
trying to make them as heavy as possible so I could really gain some muscle. Two
workouts in, two days in, I could barely move my wrists and I could barely move
my ankles. I was in pain. And I thought “okay, this sucks. I’ve gotta make an
Olympic bar to grab a hold of these bands, and a way to mount the bands to the
John: Which is what that ground plate is. And then they needed to be built as
strong or stronger than a regular Olympic bar because if you’re stronger in the
stronger range, people, even people who don’t think they can lift that much are
gonna be turning with a lot more weight than they otherwise would with more
repetitions so these things needed to be built for absolute power. And I end up
working with Legend Fitness which makes some of the greatest, really
high-powered strength equipment, so they understand massive forces.
Ben: Are these elastic bands special? I mean like, coz honestly we all know you
could go to Alibaba these days and get a bunch of elastic bands from China. Why
is it that these bands are so special?
John: Yeah, so they’re not petroleum-based rubber like most bands, 99% of bands
out there are poured in a mold and they’re petroleum-based. The problem with
that is they don’t really have that much resistance even if they look thick.
These are layered latex, so if you have a latex allergy, you gotta go out and
get the rubber ones and you can do that, but layered latex is powerful. Far more
powerful than a refined polymer, a petroleum-based polymer.
John: So yeah, that’s why these things are so powerful, and sometimes some of
these small video online are like “this thing’s $550, I don’t understand why a
rubber band thing…” Yeah, you don’t quite know what you’re looking at. It’s
described very well in the website but people are…
Ben: Just layered latex. So it comes with these bands, what’s this plate made
out of, that I’m standing on?
John: Polyethylene. It’s a high density polyethylene, they make boats out of
John: Really, really powerful. Yeah, I put 500lbs through that at repetition
many times, no problems.
Ben: Okay, so in a pinch I can actually take this thing out into the ocean and
use it as a boat. Good to know.
Ben: Okay so let’s get into this ten minutes thing, why do you say that you use
this thing for ten minutes a day? Is it ten minutes a day or is it two
ten-minute workouts a day? Describe to me the protocol.
John: No, I do it ten minutes a day.
John: Now I’m not wanting to throw other exercise in the trash, especially coz
some of your listeners are crossfit guys or are lifters who are looking to get
their next best performance. And so it’s like I don’t wanna say that’s wrong or
anything like that, but for me, from my own personal needs and the needs of
probably most people who buy
, X3 Bar
is all they
do. I do nothing, I do zero cardio, I’m lean as hell, I have veins in my abs.
Ben: How does that work, doing zero cardio? Is it similar to this Doug McGuff
idea of a huge increase in, I think he calls a peripheral resistance? Where your
heart is having to pump so hard against peripheral resistance from moving slow?
John: Oh yeah. Right, well with diminishing range.
John: With diminished range, when you fatigue the strong range, midrange and the
weak range, your blood is pumping.
Ben: Yeah, my heart rate goes through the roof when I’m using this thing.
John: Right, right. So I’m cardiovascularly healthy, I have a low resting heart
rate, I have low blood pressure or below normal, and so all I’m doing is ten
Ben: And what’s it look like for you? Walk me through a sample workout that it
looks like for you for ten minutes, I’m just curious.
John: So like today, I’m gonna do my workout number one, so it’ll be chest
press, tricep push down, overhead press, and calf raises.
John: So four sets all out, complete fatigue… that’s it, that’s the whole
Ben: Now do you get some kick back, because this is something that I always
raise an eyebrow at and a lot of everybody from crossfitters to
strength-conditioning coaches will as well, doing things like bicep curls and
calf raises and all these single joint exercises that don’t seem to be that
efficient versus just having… like if I were to just do a ten minute workout on
this with more multi-joint moves like the chest press and the squat. While we’ve
been talking today, I’ve been doing the deadlift and the upright row just coz I
can stand in front of my microphone and do it that way. But fill me in on why
the single joint exercises doesn’t kind of fly in the face of efficiency.
John: Completely. However, people still have vanity and people still wanna look
good. And then when I tell ‘em their calves are gonna look better if they’re in
John: “Oh, okay.” Ultimately, it’s a product that’s for masses.
Ben: So if you’re doing this, you can use it for aesthetics and if you’re using
it for aesthetics, some of these single joint exercises… when I was a
bodybuilder, the way that I did things was I would do three full body workouts
coz I’m a hardgainer, I’m a lean guy. So I would do three full body workouts,
Monday/Wednesday/Friday and this was like deads, cleans, squats. So rather than
me doing a body part split, it was three full body workouts and then on the
weekends, I would do vanity exercises which is actually what moved the dial from
aesthetic standpoint, where I do a huge amount of calf raises and bicep curls
and abdominal work.
John: Ultimately the people, a lot of people talk about functional strength…
most people wanna look pretty. So we’re addressing both.
John: If somebody goes “yeah, those specific exercise are just a waste of time,
waste of energy, waste of muscle building resources”, that may be true, skip
‘em. But those are the people who know the difference, and ultimately, I have a
twelve week program and I show people how to do some exercises. So last week I
was with a group of recon Marines who got a bunch of
they’re gonna be putting in into the program. Recon Marines still have to be
recon Marines, these guys are special forces. So they want to do the movements
like the deadlift, the overhead press, that mimic what Marines have to do. So
they’re probably not doing a lot of bicep curls except for the ones that are
trying to look good at the beach.
John: But when guys are special forces military, they’re not really focused on
looking food at the beach, they’re killing machines. They gotta be efficient, so
now I also worked with a local bay area SWAT team where they realized that one
of the biggest deterrents of violence because they do a lot of riot control, we
got a lot of unhappy people in America right now. So when they go to do riot
control, one of the things they’re focused on when they’re lifting is they wanna
look intimidated because that keeps people from picking fights with police
officers. So bicep curls are right up their alley.
Ben: That makes sense. Now I know we kind rabbit holed there for a minute asking
about the single joint exercises, but as far as the actual sets and reps for
this ten minute workout that you’ll do each day, what do the sets and reps look
John: So the sets, it’s one or two sets to absolute fatigue. I find the guys
that are more prone to be a slow twitch kind of potential marathon people, guys
who ran cross country in high school sort of thing, they tend to do better with
two sets. But for strength type athletes like myself, I do better with one.
Ben: Single set to failure?
John: Yeah, using constant tension, so never resting at the bottom, never
letting the band go slack, and never locking the joint out of the top. So the
constant tension and then, this is really important, diminishing range. First
you go to fatigue in the strong range, then the midrange, then the weaker range.
Ben: Okay, so if I were doing a squat, sorry to interrupt, what would that look
John: So you would start by going to almost straight leg, and you’d keep going
let’s say 15 repetitions and all of a sudden you won’t be able to get to the top
anymore because the weight’s just so high. And then so you do squats that are
more like from where the femur’s parallel to the ground to about halfway up,
you’ll do another 5 or 6 repetitions there. And then where you’re almost
completely squatted down, when you’re discharged and the band is almost slack,
you’ll do another 2 or 3 repetitions that may be 1 or 2 inches.
Ben: Right, so as you get more and more tired, you’re moving into those weaker
ranges of motion.
John: And then usually you just collapse after that.
Ben: Okay, gotcha. So basically what you look at then is as you go through the
actual exercise, there are points to the exercise where you got a little bit
more tension, or I’m sorry, a little less tension in the band, like at the
bottom of a bicep curl versus the top of a bicep curl.
Ben: Now what you’re saying is go full range of motion and then for a curl say
go through midrange of motion and then finish in that range of motion where
you’ve got kind of a little bit more elastic band left over but you’re so
fatigued anyways it doesn’t matter.
John: Now one of the protocols that I’m working on, I’m a do some advanced
programming, I’ve been planning on doing this for two months now, so I really
gotta get to doing it. I have Cedric McMillan who’s a bodybuilder, he’ll be in
the Olympian next year, he won the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic a year ago. And
so what he observed was a lot of people think they’ve gone to fatigue and are
really cutting themselves short, so the advanced programming is gonna be like
some static, isometric holds at whatever top position you’re at. So really do a
check, am I truly able to not go forward? And so there’s pauses at the peak
depending on where you are in the range of motion, and I’ve got some of that and
that’ll be in the programming. Another one who’s helping develop that protocol,
you’ll probably remember this guy and he was just an amazing bodybuilder, Phil
John: He was with the USA in 1996.
John: And he helps… he’s such a great guy. He helps people really get away from
anabolics and focus more on nutrition and still be a competitive lifter. He’s
really good with doing great work.
Ben: Nice, okay cool. I actually… I’ve been doing calf raises the whole time you
were saying that. I’m not a big calf raise guy but it actually feels like it
almost decompresses the spine too, it’s so cool. Now I’ve gotta ask you, like I
mentioned earlier I’ve been doing this on the vibration platform, like I’ve got
a full on Power Plate, vibration platform in my living room I put this thing on
top of, I’ve used it on a balance board for a little bit of proprioception and
that growth hormone response that you alluded to, just learned about that. I’ve
used it with blood flow restriction bands so I get a little more lactic acid
which also causes a dump of growth hormone. Any other interesting ways or
inventive ways you’ve discovered people are using or incorporating this thing?
John: Those two things, the vibration platform, in fact… the company VibePlate
is making a new vibeplate that accommodates the top of the
the X3 Bar
’ll plug right into it.
Ben: Oh that’s cool, nice. I like that. Yeah, that’s a great idea coz that Power
Plate that I have it’s got some handles and some bands on it but they’re not
even elastic bands. It’s just like isometric training and it doesn’t work that
well on my end.
John: I used to be the chief science officer of that company.
Ben: Oh nice, cool.
John: Yeah, we could really go down the rabbit hole of vibration and some of the
goofy claims that have been made about vibration. It’s a shame because it’s a
great modality for what it does, but because so many of these companies chose
not to do scientific presentation, more of like celebrities use this, they just
absolutely have overblown what it does.
Ben: Yeah, all the ladies at the gym drinking their 24oz Jamba Juices and
standing on the vibration platform to lose fat, those type of claims.
Ben: Well very interesting. I know your website, the
I’ll link to that in the show notes. If you go to
bengreenfieldfitness.com/tenminutes coz actually it’s a pretty cool device
especially if you don’t have a lot of space to train in or you wanna get strong
with pretty minimalist routines, or like John alluded to, it’s actually pretty
good for body composition and aesthetics too. And you don’t have to be a big,
old rugby player like John or an obstacle course racer like me to us it.
John: [laughs] I wasn’t big, I put on 30lbs of muscle the first year.
Ben: Using this thing?
John: Yeah, I was like you as a hard gainer. I couldn’t really get… and that’s
part of my inspiration. The bone density device, my inspiration was my mother.
The inspiration for this is just weightlifting didn’t really do much for me.
John: Yeah, I mean even when I played rugby. People look at me now and they
imagine “oh this guy was always huge.” I’ll show a picture of me when I was 30
and I think my 30th birthday I went 160lbs, not 250lbs.
Ben: Wow. Well I just got a whole workout the whole time we were talking. I did
upright rows, I did my curls, did my calf raises and I did deadlifts, so boom. I
feel great, now I can go eat lunch. If you wanna grab one of these
s. Basically you just go to umm… is it x3bar.com
Ben: Just go grab one, do some workouts on it, let me know what you think in the
show notes in this podcast with John. You can go to those over at
bengreenfieldfitness.com/tenminutes. But I love this thing, and also I’ll put a
link over to the OsteoStrong website too if you are concerned about osteoporosis
or bone density and you wanna pick one of those up, I’ll link to there so you
can find a location to… or not pick one up but go workout on one. I don’t think
many people are gonna be buying a $100,000 OsteoStrong unit but these
units are… how much are they?
Ben: Yeah, it’s like a full body training tool. Minimalist footprint…
John: Yeah, it’s a whole gym that fits in a drawer.
Ben: Yeah or in a suitcase, so good stuff. John, thanks for bringing this device
to my attention and sending me one to try out and for being a guest on the
podcast and sharing this stuff with us, it’s fascinating.
John: It was an honor, I’ve been a fan for a long time.
Ben: Awesome. Alright folks, well I’m Ben Greenfield along with John Jaquish,
signing out. Check out his website,
, check out the show
notes, bengreenfieldfitness.com/tenminutes, and have an amazing week.
John: Thanks Ben!