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Episode 12 - Interview with Dr. John Jaquish: The X3 Bar vs. Traditional Lifting, Why Cardio Makes you Hold Onto Fat and Dr. John's Dietary Advice
In my interview with Dr. John Jaquish, we touched on the development regarding the X3 Bar and the advantages of variable resistance along with:
Why weightlifting can be a bad stimulus for growing muscle
Brian’s experience with the X3 Bar
Why only one set and the hormonal response when using the X3 Bar
Advantage of front squats with the X3 Bar
Why cardio is not a good way to lose fat
Dr. John’s feasting and fasting schedule
Advantages of his Fortagen formula
Dr. John’s cheat food (you might be surprised)
One tip to get your body back to what it once was!
Brian Gryn: Coming up on the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast. Why is it superior to just lifting weights?
Dr. John Jaquish: Because you have variable capacity, so what I discovered in my bone density research is you can handle X amount of weight, let’s say chest press type activity, you can handle X amount of weight when it’s right on your chest. When you’re pushing away from yourself, when you’re just short of full extension, not at full extension just short of full extension you can handle seven times the amount of force.
Dr. John Jaquish: So, no matter what you’re doing if you’re not using variable resistance you’re not stimulating hardly anything at all.
Brian Gryn: Hello, and welcome to the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast. I’m Brian Gryn and I’m here to give you actionable tips to get your body back to what it once was five, 10, even 15 years ago. Each week I’ll give you an in depth interview with a health expert from around the world to cut through the fluff and get you long term sustainable results.
Brian Gryn: In this episode I interview Dr. John Jaquish. He’s the inventor of bone density building medical device bioDensity and he also invented what’s called the X3 Bar, it’s a technology that’s proven to develop muscle much faster than conventional weight lifting, all with the lowest risk of joint injury. So we talk all about the X3 Bar, the advantages of it, the hormonal responses. Also, we get into a little bit of diet as well, so it’s a great episode with Dr. John, I’m excited to have him on, and I know you will too.
Brian Gryn: So, enjoy the interview and thanks so much for listening.
Brian Gryn: All right, well Brian gryn here at the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast, and today my guest is Dr. John Jaquish and I’m excited to have him on here. He’s the inventor of OsteoStrong devices, which is a bone density building medical device. And also invented the X3 Bar, which we’ll talk quite a bit about, and that’s variable resistance device that helps build muscle three times faster than lifting weights, and I’m proof of that.
Brian Gryn: Also, he just co-authored a book, Weight Lifting is a Waste of Time, And So Is Cardio. So, we’ve got a lot to get to. Before I share my experience Dr. John, we were just talking off recording and you are the face of the brand. Why is that? Why didn’t you just hire someone to just be your model for X3 Bar?
Dr. John Jaquish: That’s a great question. I love a good question. Yeah, it would have been so much easier to just hire somebody who was already in shape and then they say, “Oh, I use X3 Bar.” Which is what basically everybody does. Some fitness product and they get somebody who’s already shape to hop on it, and they go, “Oh yeah, this things great.” But of course they’re endorsing a couple of different things. So, it doesn’t … Anyone who’s really following them is like, “They don’t use that.” And also they didn’t build their body that way.
Dr. John Jaquish: And so, I thought I was going to find someday and really inspire them to just use X3 exclusively and get even further, but the problem was without overwhelming proof … I had scientific proof, but the fitness people I would be talking to, the models, they don’t read research, it’s unfair to assume that they’re going to be understand the same level. I understood it. In fact, it took me two years as I was putting it together to really convince myself. Because you have data in front of you that says weight lifting is a terrible stimulus for muscle growth and there’s probably a better approach.
Dr. John Jaquish: I developed the better approach and I’m sitting there scratching my head like, “What if I’m misreading my own data?” Right? There are people who do an analysis, but they did the analysis wrong and then the analysis shows X, but really the answer’s not X, or the data disproves X. So, I thought, okay … And then who knows. I get somebody who they say they’re going to do X3 and then they post on Instagram and doing pull-ups and everyone’s like, “Oh, there it is it’s because of the pull-ups, that’s why that guy’s in shape.” I love that. That’s so stupid, like see somebody who’s in incredible shape, they completely transform because of X3 Bar and then they go out and they’re like rock climbing one day just for fun and it’s like, “It’s because of rock climbing that guy’s in great shape.”
Dr. John Jaquish: Like, oh these idiots. So … By the way rock climbing will not get you strong, it’s a great, fun sport-
Brian Gryn: Difficult.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, difficult. Well, the secret to being a great rock climber is weighing 120 pounds.
Brian Gryn: I was going to say, being light. Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: Oh yeah, yeah. I used to enjoy, I used to belong to a rock gym. This is all indoor rock climbing, it was in Chicago.
Brian Gryn: Oh yeah, I was just going to say I’m in Chicago, so I thought I [crosstalk 00:05:15], yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, the [inaudible 00:05:17] place up North Shore, yeah. So, anyway. I knew everybody would just screw it up [crosstalk 00:05:29]-
Brian Gryn: So how many years … What was the progress? So, I know you were telling me you weighed what? And you used it obviously exclusively for how many years and-
Dr. John Jaquish: The day I got the prototype in my hand, so I designed it, I sent it off to the guys who were going to do the CAD work, so I mean I did the cocktail napkin drawing and Henry who’s my co-author on the book, the second name on it, he did the real CAD drawing. And everyone I mentioned this to they were like, “It can’t be that simple.” And I’m like, “Yeah, it is, it’s really elegant, really simple, it’s going to grow more muscle I swear. I’ve got all the data.”
Dr. John Jaquish: And I didn’t have all the data compiled, I didn’t write the book first, so then when everybody … And when I got the prototype in my hands, I thought, “Okay, I want to use it because I want to see really how far I can get with this thing.” Because also X3 challenges what is genetically possible. We always hear about genetic limitations. The genetic limitations have to do with the strength that’s being applied through the tendinous and ligamentous tissue and pain perception, that’s what the limit of your genetics is.
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, we just threw that all out the window, because you don’t have any joint discomfort. Joints are no longer a limitation. It is purely muscle. And also muscle and muscle size, and muscle power are what causes … It’s what the muscle can contract again that causes the tendons and ligaments to grow. So, it’s one comes before the other. It’s sort of like a cascade of effects.
Dr. John Jaquish: But if the musculature’s not there the tendons and ligaments won’t grow. So, back to me, I was 190 pounds and chubby, so I was carrying an extra 20 pounds of body fat, so no visible abdominals. You can see the before and after pictures of me on the website.
Dr. John Jaquish: I think they’re at the very bottom of the main page. So, I thought I kind of have to be the guy here, I have to be the model. And of course it put a lot of pressure on me because I hadn’t had a six-pack since high school. Right? [crosstalk 00:07:51] And I was 40. It was like, okay, [crosstalk 00:07:57] yeah well I was 40 three years ago, so four years ago now, I’m 44, I just turned 44. So, there was just a lot of question marks there, what if I can’t do it? But then it’s just like of course I can do it, anybody can fucking do it, so I’m just doing it.
Brian Gryn: And so you went on the journey. How long did you do it for yourself with the prototype until you started to put it into production and then you’re like, “Oh, this works, let’s get this thing going.”
Dr. John Jaquish: About a year and a half. So, I’d already put on maybe, so I put on 30 pounds of muscle in the first year and in the first two years which the product had already launched a little bit, which was kind of my next benchmark I had gained another 15, so 45 pounds of muscle and lost 16 pounds of body fat.
Dr. John Jaquish: So it was really funny because when I launched the product people were like … And they were trying to compliment me, but this is not the kind of compliment you want, so like, “It’s nice that this company chose a chubby guy to represent … An out of shape guy to present the product, because it’s just very refreshing that it’s not some fitness model.” And I was like, “What? I’m getting better everyday. Come on.” [inaudible 00:09:19]
Dr. John Jaquish: But they meant it to be complimentary, so I was just like, “Thanks. Question mark.” But then later on it was all of a sudden, because I was making videos every week, all of a sudden all of the comments were like, “This guy’s definitely on steroids.” So, I went from being fat to being on steroids, so there’s no in between apparently. But that’s how jealous people roll.
Brian Gryn: And did you have any history of just regular weight lifting before that?
Dr. John Jaquish: 20 years [crosstalk 00:09:52] did hardly anything for me. Basically in 20 years lifting weights I think I went through puberty, I think that was my secret. Not being a skinny kid, I mean [crosstalk 00:10:04] I played rugby in undergrad, but I was an outside center, which is a wide receiver so I only weighted 160 pounds on the field, I was just fast.
Brian Gryn: Right. Yeah, no, I was just going to say when the quarantine started I wanted something that I could do at home and I got the X3 Bar, and I’ve been lifting for over 20 years, I’ve just been in health and wellness for a long tine and I was like, I never really got into bands. I was like, “God, I don’t know.” And then it just took me a little while to get the change over and decide that, wow, this is something that really can get you results. It’s like people were asking me, “How are you getting bigger?” And part of it I started to eat more meat, good high quality grass-fed, grass-finished meat that I was just having delivered to the house.
Dr. John Jaquish: There’s no getting away from it. If you’re going to grow, you need what makes you grow. Which is not kale.
Brian Gryn: I know, I got away from the salads and then with the X3 Bar it was like I was having elbow issues, because I couldn’t even bench 135 after a while, and I was like, I can’t even do my upper body, so my lower body was so far past my upper body, it was a little frustrating. I was like, well, I like having a bigger lower … I was like, I need to start doing upper body more, and with the bands and variable resistance, which we’ll talk about today, so much less strain on the joints and I’m able to get through it [crosstalk 00:11:33]-
Dr. John Jaquish: No, it’s not bands. You’re not doing band training. That’s not what X3 is.
Brian Gryn: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: Bands are part of it, but if you use some of the banding that’s included with X3 without the bar, you’ll break your wrist because it is so much more powerful than the bands you’ll find at Walmart or something.
Brian Gryn: Right. Yes. And just so people know there comes with a how big, that’s Olympic bar, it’s maybe how many, 18 inches or something like that. Yeah, there it is. Okay. Which is a great, it’s a great apparatus to use and it also turns with the band. So, yes I agree you don’t want to use bands without the bar. The only times I used it is on the pec crossover, I do do that exercise, I know you show that on the website.
Dr. John Jaquish: You don’t use a bar. But that’s really like a fine grain movement.
Brian Gryn: Right, sort of a burnout, well you’re burning out on all this stuff obviously.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right, it’s the problem is with the pectorals, which is especially important in men just from an aesthetic standpoint, this is not a full pectoral contraction. This is. I mean, the humorous bone is brought across the body by the pectoral, so if you line your elbow up with your sternum, and really reach across your body you can feel a tight contraction of the pectoral, you don’t really get that in a chest press. You’re not really getting to the end, so I like stacking those two movements together.
Brian Gryn: Doing [crosstalk 00:13:08]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Incredible pec rows after that.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, doing a … Talk about a burn. Back to back. And my splits, I know with your splits you’re doing it six days a week, push and pull. And I’m doing lower, upper splits, I just got into that rhythm of doing upper body one day, lower body the next day. But the great thing is what I noticed is building muscle not being sore, I always came from the old school approach of you had to be sore to build muscle and that’s not true. So, it’s been a good learning experience for me and yeah. Much better than conventional lifting, that’s for sure.
Brian Gryn: Why don’t we talk about variable resistance? Maybe give an explanation of why it’s superior. I’m sure that’s a common question to get, but I’m sure people ask why is it superior to just lifting weights?
Dr. John Jaquish: Because you have variable capacity, so what I discovered in my bone density research is you can handle X amount of weight, let’s say chest press type activity, you can handle X amount of weight when it’s right on your chest. When you’re pushing away from yourself, when you’re just short of full extension, not at full extension, just short of full extension, you can handle seven times the amount of force. So, no matter what you’re doing if you’re not using variable resistance you’re not stimulating hardly anything at all.
Brian Gryn: Right, because you can’t even that amount off your chest.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right. So right, if it’s heavy at the bottom then it’s light at the top [crosstalk 00:14:57].
Brian Gryn: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: And you’re not really contracting anything. So you’re using very small amount of muscle, so when you go to fatigue you really just overload, I’m going to quote Peter Attia here, and this is why he doesn’t believe in weight training. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to get on his show for some strange reason, I quote the guy everywhere. And it’s brilliant what he says, he says the problem with weight training is it overloads joints and under loads muscle.
Dr. John Jaquish: The muscle is capable of more. And the joints are not capable of more at all, which is why when kids start lifting or when inexperienced novices start lifting they’re not loading the joint. The joint is stronger than the muscle, but as soon as there’s matching there, the muscle becomes as strong as the joint, progress stops, which is why you see people go to the gym for the first two or three months, they grow, they might put on … I’m talking when you first start exercising you might put on five, six pounds of muscle, and then when you see guys who go to the gym for years, like 10 years, and all they got was the gains in the first couple of months.
Dr. John Jaquish: And they just keep repeating the same things or even mixing up their program and still nothing is happening. Nothing. That’s why.
Brian Gryn: Right. And maybe speak on, this was something that took me a little while to get used to, because I’m used to going to the gym for an hour, hour and a half and doing three to four sets of things. I think for me I do a little bit of a warm up and then I do one to two sets, I know you preach on doing one set with the X3 Bar and I know you-
Dr. John Jaquish: Do only one, you don’t want to do the second one.
Brian Gryn: I don’t want to do a second one, okay.
Dr. John Jaquish: You’re too … It takes you to a much deeper level of exhaustion.
Brian Gryn: Yeah. Maybe explain to the listeners and viewers regarding the one set and why.
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, when you see somebody with a suntan you don’t ask them how many sets do you do in the sun to get a tan, right?
Brian Gryn: They just [crosstalk 00:17:13]-
Dr. John Jaquish: That would be a weird question. What do you mean sets? You just go out in the sun. So, and there’s only one exposure, so usually when fourth of July, the first time you’re out in the sun for the summer or maybe it’s before that, depending on where you live. You go out with no sunblock on or maybe just on your face or something like that, and then as soon as you turn a little pink then you’re like, “Okay, give me the sunblock.” And or you go inside or whatever. So, it’s a very brief stimulus, and in fact it can be sunny in December and we could walk around without our shirts on and we’re not going to get a tan, because the light is not intense enough.
Dr. John Jaquish: So, the most intense stimulus in the shortest period of time is going to create the greatest response of the body. And that’s true of all adaptation, so the fact that weight lifters do more than one set tells you what you need to know, it tells you that weight lifting sucks. Why would you need more than one stimulus? Every other stimulus is just one shot.
Brian Gryn: Right. Okay. That makes sense and the cool thing with the X3 Bar is you can’t come up with an excuse not to do it, right? If you don’t have 10 minutes or whatever, 15 minutes, if it takes throughout the day and you have no excuses because really you’re building muscle, you’re not getting sore, so you recover. I know it takes 36 hours give or take, so that’s why you do a push pull, so you have that day and a half to recover. Right? And then you’re back at it every other day. So, there’s no excuses.
Brian Gryn: I think a lot of people use being sore as an excuse not to go back to the gym, and time. Right? But those excuses, that’s why I like it so much, those excuses are out the door because you can’t use either of them. When you’re using it.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.
Brian Gryn: Why don’t we talk a little bit about the hormonal responses. I think a lot of people on this podcast that are listening, middle aged, the whole idea with the podcast is middle aged men and women looking to get their bodies back, so this is perfect for the X3 Bar. Perhaps explain maybe some of the research regarding the hormonal responses to variable resistance.
Dr. John Jaquish: So, only meta analysis that I’ve ever written, and I wrote it with the same co-author, with Henry Alkire, when we look at stabilization firing, so I kept seeing something in research and no one had really put this together yet. So, we did a meta analysis looking at 23 different data sets and how stabilization firing would up-regulate growth hormone. And it certainly does and does in all age groups, and so part of the reason that we have trouble with body fat, other than the fact that the food we’re eating is just complete trash.
Brian Gryn: Did you say the food? I’m sorry.
Dr. John Jaquish: The food we’re eating is complete trash.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, we’ll get into food.
Dr. John Jaquish: Other than that we don’t move the way we should. We don’t stabilize our bodies, we walk around on pavement. Everything’s perfectly flat. But our feet have similar complexity to our hands, our toes are meant to grip uneven surfaces, we don’t walk like that, so we lose a lot of stabilization firing that our bodies are supposed to have going on.
Dr. John Jaquish: One day you spend running around on the beach in your bare foot, your back feels great if you have any back pain, but your core and your hamstrings and your calves are so sore-
Brian Gryn: Calves, yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: It’s because that’s the way your body is supposed to engage with the earth. So, just being barefoot and walking around on concrete will probably give you a different set of problems, [crosstalk 00:21:24]. That’s actually stupid. But yeah, if you’re walking around in dirt or sand, yeah it’s starting to activate. So, we’re missing a lot of the stimuli. So, in the meta analysis we determined that stabilization firing has a huge influence in the pulses of growth hormone. And if you add loading to that, so if you’re holding weight while you’re going through stabilization firing you have a tremendous up-regulation, 2600% which is … Yeah, like that’s just crazy high, of what you can get out of growth hormone.
Brian Gryn: And testosterone as well, right?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, yeah, the heavier you go the more testosterone. There’s a lot of trainers and gurus and guys who just make stuff up or just repeat what they heard somewhere with fitness, unfortunately there is no, absolutely no way to get away from heavy if you want to develop your body. You have to go as heavy as possible. Now people don’t like hearing that because they think, “Oh that means risk. That means I’m not willing to tolerate risk, so I guess I’ll never develop.” No. X3 is an approach to giving the body incredible forces but where you can handle them. So, you get the testosterone benefit without the risks of typical heavy lifting.
Brian Gryn: Right, yeah. And it’s a lot of it, for example, like the deadlift, with the X3 Bar what I love about doing deadlifts with it, it’s probably my favorite exercise, is the end range when you’re almost in full extension, that’s when it’s most difficult, and that’s where you’re the strongest, right?
Brian Gryn: And then on the down and all the way at the bottom, where you’re putting it perhaps when you’re coming down, it gets easier and easier, so less strain on the joints and you’re using the muscle at the top where it’s most needed. Right?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yep.
Brian Gryn: What’s your favorite exercise on the X3 Bar? If you had to pick one?
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk 00:23:44] favorite, these are like my children, man.
Brian Gryn: [crosstalk 00:23:46] If you had to pick one.
Dr. John Jaquish: I really like the deadlift, especially the way I instruct people to do the deadlift, which is really engage the trapezius. My trapezius muscles are ridiculously huge, like I have a 20 inch neck, so when I go … I can’t wear a dress shirt unless it’s custom made for me, which I think is pretty cool. I have as big a neck as Mike Tyson. That’s cool.
Brian Gryn: Okay, so I will say the deadlift is great, the front squat I was just telling you probably for me the most difficult. I think mainly because of just the core stabilization and firing from [crosstalk 00:24:36]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, see that’s … You understood, the stabilization firing. And you’re getting leaner while you do that, that’s one of the deadlift and the front squat and, well there’s only, that’s the only way to do a squat.
Brian Gryn: The front squat, yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: I always love people when trainers tell me that squats are functional, I’m like, really? At what other point in your life do you stack weights on the back of your neck?
Brian Gryn: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: And then go up and down with them. Really? You think that’s functional, huh? No, that’s a good way to really hurt yourself.
Brian Gryn: Right, I’ve been-
Dr. John Jaquish: I think back squats are just beyond stupid.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, I haven’t done one in a long time, and I used to try to do front squats in the gym, and it was difficult with the free weights, but with the X3 Bar it’s, I would say it’s a safer version, better version of doing it.
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk 00:25:25] right, right.
Brian Gryn: God forbid you’ve got to put it down, so you put it down. You’re using, when you’re doing real weights, that’s when stuff can happen, you lose a little balance [crosstalk 00:25:34]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Have you switched to single leg yet?
Brian Gryn: Have I done … Yes, I do single leg too.
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk 00:25:39] the single leg is, that’s another thing, trainers just their head explodes when I say this, but it’s like a squat, front or back, back has got its own reasons why it’s not smart, but the front squat no one should squat on two feet. Unless you’re a kangaroo, if you’re a human you walk on foot at a time or run on one foot at a time. So you should train one leg at a time.
Brian Gryn: For sure.
Dr. John Jaquish: And focus all your body’s resources, have them forced into that one quadricep, and one glute and the stabilizing firing associated with that, like we have to balance our bodies while we run. Because somebody will be like, “Well, you’re not, you’re unilaterally loading and that’s not good.” Bullshit, then we shouldn’t run, right. We should just hop.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, no it’s definitely-
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, so dumb, yeah.
Brian Gryn: But the single leg is great and usually I’ll do deadlift, front squat and then single leg, back to back to back. And that’s enough to cash out. Let’s talk … Well, let’s hit on cardio. I will say this, I’ve never been a big cardio fan, so I’ve never been a big runner. If I do stuff that’s just maybe a little different I’ve done Muay Thai for years and years and years which I love, because I’m just not a runner. Maybe talk a little bit about I know you mention in your book regarding cardio and how it stimulates cortisol and things like that, and how for most people let’s just say chronic cardio it is a waste of time, especially if you want to have fat loss.
Dr. John Jaquish: So, if you want to be a great runner you’ve got to run. But that’s not why most people do cardio. They do cardio because they think they’re going to lose weight from it-
Brian Gryn: Lose weight.
Dr. John Jaquish: They’re going to drop body fat. And it is the opposite of what is happening. Your body is actually preserving your body fat and sacrificing muscle when you do cardio, so you actually lose muscle and you protect your body fat, so you stay as fat as possible as long as possible. Who wants that?
Brian Gryn: I mean[crosstalk 00:28:02]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Like, and there’s 40 years of research. Talk to any sports scientist, they’ll be like, “Oh yeah, yeah, of course, cardio, don’t do that.” But then we’ll say, well why does the fitness industry recommend and so on, they’ll start laughing, they’ll be like, “Oh, the fitness industry is just-
Brian Gryn: Because they want to sell treadmills.
Dr. John Jaquish: They want to sell treadmills. The equipment factories want to sell treadmills. The gyms just want to give people what they think they want. If you go to sign up at a gym and they go, we do it differently because we want you to get results and everything you thought was the right thing for fitness isn’t, nobody would sign up with that gym because people aren’t there to learn, they’re there to do something, which they have a pre-conceived idea. So, it’s really hard to break that model in people’s heads, and so, “No, everything you’ve been told is wrong.”
Dr. John Jaquish: It’s just it’s a tough sell.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, and I always say would you rather look like a marathon runner or the guys that are doing the 40 yard dash, body wise, it’s not even close.
Dr. John Jaquish: And most people don’t even, they don’t even have an idea, they think, “Oh no, runners have beautiful bodies.” And then you tell them, “Google a marathon runner. And hit Google Images.” Yeah, which is everyone looks like-
Brian Gryn: Like they’re malnourished.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, or in a Turkish prison.
Brian Gryn: Let’s talk a little bit about optimizing nutrition, because I’m a big proponent of intermittent fasting, I know you are as well. And so let’s talk about perhaps maybe your routine, I know you’re big into fasting in the book. It talks about it and maybe some carb timing and protein amount and the sources and things like that.
Dr. John Jaquish: Which do you want me to answer first?
Brian Gryn: Why don’t we start with, let’s start with the fasting. What’s your routine right now? I know you’ve-
Dr. John Jaquish: I’m always running experiments, so.
Brian Gryn: I know, I know you were doing two days there for a while, are you still there or are you changing it up?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, I did three days for a while. I’ve done some dry fasts.
Brian Gryn: Oh, how were that?
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, they’re [crosstalk 00:30:26] as you can imagine they would be but very effective, I mean just you devastate body fat, you get rid of body fat so quick in the [crosstalk 00:30:37]-
Brian Gryn: With the dry fast, yeah. Would you do a day, two days?
Dr. John Jaquish: I did 72 hours, no food, no water. Yeah.
Brian Gryn: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.
Brian Gryn: How’d you feel at the end, were you just, felt good? I would advise anyone listening you want to ease your way into this. You’ve been [crosstalk 00:30:54]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, this is the last step. This is [crosstalk 00:30:58] the final level. Yeah.
Brian Gryn: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: You feel lousy, kind of right away. Because water does fill you up. And-
Brian Gryn: Keeps it busy at least.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, and being well hydrated keeps some things working in a fairly optimal way, even when you’re using, when you’re metabolizing ketones and using your body fat as fuel. But dry fast everything suffers a little bit, and your body’s still pulling water out of body fat so you really only get so dehydrated and then you get into the state of where you’re pulling moisture out of body which destroys the cells. So, it’s awesome but-
Brian Gryn: It’s the last step [crosstalk 00:31:52]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it is the last step.
Brian Gryn: It’s cool to say you’ve done it, I’ve done a day dry fast, but that’s been it.
Brian Gryn: And then so routinely what are you doing right now? Are you doing one meal every two days is what your routine is right now?
Dr. John Jaquish: Oh yeah, for a while I was doing … That’s not right now, no man. [crosstalk 00:32:13] I’m just about ready, I’ve been running another experiment, which is more focused on one meal a day.
Brian Gryn: Nice.
Dr. John Jaquish: But at a calorie deficit and a protein surplus. Because calorie deficit it’s never described quite right in what it does. And it’s also the idea, there’s plenty of documentation that you lose both fat and muscle with a calorie deficit, but that’s incorrect or an oversimplification, I always tell people oversimplification is another word for wrong.
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk 00:32:50]
Brian Gryn: So what’s your one meal?
Dr. John Jaquish: Just steak or red meat, ground beef.
Brian Gryn: Okay, so straight protein. Any carbs?
Dr. John Jaquish: Just right before or right after the workout. Like [crosstalk 00:33:05].
Brian Gryn: So, do you do your workout right before you break your fast?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yes.
Brian Gryn: Nice.
Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right. Yeah, so definitely work out fasted, leaves all the blood available to go into musculature and deliver the sarcoplasmic benefit.
Dr. John Jaquish: What happened is, the stimulus to this was I started dating a new girl who, super fit, so I thought she’d be completely down with everything that was in the book, and [crosstalk 00:33:41]-
Brian Gryn: She better like your book, right?
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, she’s a physical therapist, she likes to argue about [crosstalk 00:33:49]. But of course actually no, she doesn’t like to argue because she never wins. So, and I’m not one of those guys that’s like, “Oh yeah, sweetheart.” That’s not me. I’m not here to please anybody except myself. That’s not totally true of the whole relationship, though.
Brian Gryn: Got to give and take.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. So, yeah, but when somebody says I don’t agree with this part of your book, I’m going for their fucking throat, I’m like, “Oh really? Well it’s not my opinion, it is science and so explain what’s wrong with the.” I mean I’m all over her. So, it’s like, but basically the punchline is she just didn’t really want to fast, she says just, “I don’t like how it feels. I get hungry.” Right, she’s not really fat adapted, I mean-
Brian Gryn: Okay, so she’s never done it.
Dr. John Jaquish: No, but she has a six pack so it’s not like she’s never going to get in shape. She’s a highly competitive college cheerleader, she’s just dynamite, she can do anything physically. A total acrobat, so I’m like, “Okay.”
Brian Gryn: So no fasting for her.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right, so I really changed my nutrition to … Well, I got her to do one meal a day. She can do one meal a day and then the rest of the protein is made up really by, the deficit is Fortagen. And so, then in the one meal if there’s a little bit of carbohydrate there it’s really not that big of a deal because it doesn’t matter, 12 hours later you’re going into ketosis anyway. And especially at a deficit, it’s probably earlier. Because I’m not eating the whole day’s worth of calories in that one meal, so yeah, I’ve just jokingly called this nutrition program, cheeseburgers and Fortagen because we can-
Brian Gryn: Or rib-eye.
Dr. John Jaquish: Well right, but she’s also different than me in that she doesn’t want to eat at only steakhouses, which I walk into a steakhouse in Northern California, people are like, “Dr. Jaquish, how you doing?” Right. [crosstalk 00:36:07] Right, and then she’s like, “I feel like Thai tonight.” And I remember the first time she said that, I was like, “Mm. Thai what?” I don’t-
Brian Gryn: Thai food, yeah right.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, right, I mean Thai food is, it’s really [crosstalk 00:36:28].
Brian Gryn: A lot of noodles, Pad Thai. I used to love Pad Thai I will say, I used to love Pad Thai, I don’t eat it anymore though. But-
Dr. John Jaquish: Right, and they never put enough chicken in it. You’re like, this is … It’s like were you expecting to give this to a rabbit, this is nothing.
Brian Gryn: Right, it’s 80% noodles.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, and if you get it and you eat around the noodles, you realize you hardly ate anything.
Brian Gryn: Right, exactly, it’s still full, the plate’s full. Okay, so mainly steak-
Dr. John Jaquish: The experiment I’m running right now and I’m documenting it well, because I’m seeing just how much we can get out of bacterial fermentation with Fortagen.
Brian Gryn: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: And I am continuing to build muscle. And getting leaner. And I’m not going through the really uncomfortable fasts.
Brian Gryn: So, you’re … Just so people know Fortagen is a product from your company which I do have. It’s a protein replacement, it’s five times more anabolic than standard protein sources. Right?
Brian Gryn: And it’s fermented, correct?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it’s from bacterial fermentation, yeah.
Brian Gryn: And you’re taking this … So, you’re working out, you’re taking this and then you’re waiting a little bit to eat your meal?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, you want to wait two hours after a meal before having a dose of Fortagen, but you only need to wait 30 minutes after Fortagen before you can eat the meal. Because Fortagen digests very fast, so, I’ll have four doses of Fortagen throughout the day.
Brian Gryn: Okay, so you’re taking it throughout the day, not just after the workout?
Dr. John Jaquish: Like, literally it’s in this cup right now. With my X3 Bar [crosstalk 00:38:15]-
Brian Gryn: Oh nice, that’s a cool cup. Okay, so you’re taking Fortagen throughout the day, which I think what is it per serving? Four calories or something?
Dr. John Jaquish: Four calories. Now, like a lot of people get so upset, they’re like, “There’s no way you’re getting.” So, there’s 10 grams of amino acids, which metabolize as efficiently as 50 grams of a less efficient protein. So, it’s a massive amount of value of protein, because ultimately when you find out that whey protein is only 18% usable by the body and everything else goes through you as waste, well when you do 50 grams of a 50 gram protein shake with whey protein, well you really just got nine grams of usable protein.
Brian Gryn: So, this is fermented protein, is that correct?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.
Brian Gryn: Okay.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, just rotting material, where bacteria takes a hold of it and processes it, and then after the bacteria dies off you refine it and it’s the worst tasting thing, unless it’s flavored, which it is. So people are always like, “Oh, I only want the unflavored kind.” And I’m like, “You will vomit. No. We’re not making that, sorry.”
Brian Gryn: Do you manufacture that here in the States?
Dr. John Jaquish: In the States, yeah. Yeah. At a pharma quality facility, the highest standards. Yeah, it actually used to be a cancer treatment, it still is actually. So, I talked to the guys who developed the cancer protocol, and it was designed to keep muscle from wasting when you were in chemotherapy. Because that’s really what kills you, when somebody [crosstalk 00:40:07] chemo, yeah. Yeah, it’s because their body just fell apart.
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, body falling apart is really muscle falling apart, and so they just didn’t have the ability to maintain protein synthesis, they couldn’t hold down any food, so it was we’re going to come up with a … The intention of the scientists who created the cancer protocol was we need the most efficient protein to just get it in the system and create the maximum amount of muscle protein synthesis, to keep from wasting.
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, it’s like okay, I tweaked it a little bit with these guys, and I hire them, I paid them a lot of money and they-
Brian Gryn: Did they come to you or you came to them for that product?
Dr. John Jaquish: I came to them. It was really weird, they think the fitness industry is a joke, they want nothing to do with it. I’m like, “I’ll handle everything. I’m not asking for a partnership here, I’m not asking you for your help. We create this thing and all the marketing’s my problem.” And they’re like, “Okay, well good luck. People who are in fitness are idiots.” And they are correct, but [crosstalk 00:41:15]-
Brian Gryn: Quick question, for Fortagen because I have it myself, can I put that … I’ve had it with water, can I put it in anything else and make a shake out of it, or do you think that’ll just you won’t get the benefits?
Dr. John Jaquish: You don’t want to add it to anything with protein in it, because that kind of screws up the ratio of what you’re consuming and you may not be getting the benefits. And I’ve heard people say they want to put it in orange juice, I’ve also heard people put sea salt in it.
Brian Gryn: I mean, I don’t mind the taste, it’s not even that. I was just wondering if I wanted to just put it with almond milk and I don’t know-
Dr. John Jaquish: Don’t eat almond milk.
Brian Gryn: Don’t add almond, okay. Even if it’s sprouted almond milk [crosstalk 00:42:03].
Dr. John Jaquish: No, there’s oxalates, that is just, that’s [crosstalk 00:42:05]. No, throw away your almond milk.
Brian Gryn: What about goat milk?
Dr. John Jaquish: That’s fine.
Brian Gryn: Okay. I’ll still with … I’ve been having goat milk [crosstalk 00:42:13]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Unless you have a casein allergy or something, I have a casein allergy so I can’t do goat milk. But I mean, [crosstalk 00:42:23] goat milks' fine. No, I mean you can milk a goat. Try and milk an almond for me, you know what I mean?
Brian Gryn: Yeah, no I hear-
Dr. John Jaquish: I’ve never seen tits on an almond.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, I hear you. Let’s talk I’m a big morning routine guy, I’m curious what’s your morning routine like?
Dr. John Jaquish: I’m going to disappoint you.
Brian Gryn: Don’t tell me you sleep in.
Dr. John Jaquish: No, it’s not that, it’s I’m over the last 10 years with OsteoStrong, with all the scientific presentations. I used to do trips where I would leave San Francisco, fly to Chicago, had an office in Chicago, stay there for a couple of days, fly to London, have an office there, spent some time in London, couple of days. Fly to Moscow where we had a very big distributor. Fly from Moscow to Osaka, Japan, for a couple of days and then back to San Francisco [crosstalk 00:43:21], literally around the world. You would wake up and walk right into the wall. Because you had no idea where you were, no idea what time it was. So, do I really have a morning routine? No. Wake up, I like showering at night so I can just wake up, splash water on my face and get dressed and just walk out the door.
Brian Gryn: Nothing wrong with that.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, so it’s like my wits are about me at night, and then when I wake up in the morning sometimes I’m I get in the cab in some foreign country and they’re like, “Where are you going?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” And I’m thumbing through my email trying to figure out what address I need to give the cab driver. Not my favorite. Now, coronavirus has kind of ended all of that.
Brian Gryn: I was going to say you can’t be traveling that much now, are you?
Dr. John Jaquish: No, and so I would … There could be more of a routine now, but of course I have a new girlfriend so that also throws routines off a bit. Yeah, yeah.
Brian Gryn: And okay, so what about … I noticed with the book, Weight Lifting is a Waste of Time, that you just came out with who’s your biggest influence in your life? I noticed was that book dedicated to, is that your dad?
Dr. John Jaquish: It was dedicated to my father, yeah. I dedicated my first book to my mother, and they’re both huge influences on my life, I’m really lucky to have great parents. And they gave me my artistic side, my mother’s a fashion designer. And my father is a NASA scientist, put the lunar rover, the little car on the moon, actually three of them. And they all worked, so yeah, I’m really proud of my parents, they’re cool.
Dr. John Jaquish: And yeah, yeah, so but I mean biggest influences, now I will say my mom will probably see this, she’ll be unhappy. I get a lot of bad advice from my parents too, [crosstalk 00:45:35] and sometimes they had me when they were a little older, and they were talking about decisions that were made around World War Two, I’m like, “This is not the same.” And they’ll admit it, they’ll be like, “We probably don’t know what we’re talking about.” Which I think is funny, because I’ve got to talk them into that, but get them to really see, “You are giving me, probably good advice for 1950.” Not for today.
Brian Gryn: Do they live in Chicago, or where are they?
Dr. John Jaquish: No, they live in Northern California.
Brian Gryn: Oh okay, so you’re close.
Dr. John Jaquish: Near Lake Tahoe.
Brian Gryn: Okay. When we talked about your daily eating and fasting schedule, one meal a day, what would you say if you had a cheat food, if you had to do a cheat food what would it be?
Dr. John Jaquish: This is so against my DNA, [crosstalk 00:46:36]-
Brian Gryn: I’m a clean eater too, but everyone’s got a cheat food.
Dr. John Jaquish: When I started dating this girl I was like, “Oh, she never has cheat days.” Because I’m looking at her and she’s just perfect. And then it was late at night one night and she goes, “Let’s go to Insomnia Cookies.” And there’s one right downstairs.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, that’s [crosstalk 00:46:58]-
Dr. John Jaquish: I’m like, “You want late night cookies?” And I’m like, that goes against everything I tell people. And she’s like, “Yeah, but just have one or two.”
Brian Gryn: She’s trying to [crosstalk 00:47:14].
Dr. John Jaquish: I mean, but yeah I mean that’s just like, “Oh, just try a little bit of this heroin.” Like, no.
Brian Gryn: Right right.
Dr. John Jaquish: And so, I realized okay, I’m going to have to make some adjustments to my lifestyle because yeah, you know.
Brian Gryn: So, you’re insinuating then Insomnia Cookies would be a cheat food for you?
Dr. John Jaquish: Unfortunately.
Brian Gryn: Hey, that’s all right. You know what, I always say to people it’s not necessarily about the cheat foods, it’s about getting right back on the wagon and just living a clean lifestyle.
Dr. John Jaquish: I tell you what my real cheat food is, because Insomnia Cookies is like they’re actually, they’re good as far as cookies go, but cookies were never my thing. So, my mother’s from Belgium, and a real Belgian waffle, not a waffle like you’d get anywhere in the United States. Heavy, really heavy dough, they’re not really overly sweet and they have powdered sugar on the top of them.
Brian Gryn: That’s it.
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk 00:48:13] when I’m in Belgium when I’m walking down the street I will get, and now I can use it to amplify my glycogen replacement for a workout, so I think the last time I was in Belgium I had my X3 Bar in the carrying case of my bag, and I did a workout in front … I wish somebody had taken a picture of this, did a workout in front of one of these waffle carts in the middle of Brussels. It was a cold day, but I was sweating like hell because it’s a hard workout and then I had two Belgian waffles, it was awesome. Everything went right into muscle glycogen, I could feel it, everything was just swelling, I looked like I’d doubled in size after my workout was over.
Brian Gryn: One of the questions I like to ask guests on the show is what would be your one tip to get your … Let’s say you’re middle aged, I’m 40, we’re both middle aged, what would be your one tip [crosstalk 00:49:17]-
Dr. John Jaquish: I hate that [crosstalk 00:49:18] but you’re right.
Brian Gryn: What’s that?
Dr. John Jaquish: I hate that by the way.
Brian Gryn: I know, time flies. I’ll tell you. Let me tell you, I don’t feel 40, and I know you don’t feel 44.
Dr. John Jaquish: I feel better than I did when I was 18. I have no joint pain, I feel just dynamite.
Brian Gryn: Well, that’s the key right, it’s just a number, right? It’s just a number. What would be your one tip that you would give someone if they wanted to get their bodies back, and I know we talked about X3, let’s say disregard X3, but what would be another tip maybe you’d give someone if they wanted to get back into what they were maybe 10 years ago?
Dr. John Jaquish: I would tell them to read The Carnivore Diet, that’s the best book, by Dr. Shawn Baker. Yeah, I mean that will put you on a path where there’s no way you won’t be lean by following the advice in that book. And it’s easy. And it’s just so easy. And it’s basically still what I’m doing with my burgers and Fortagen. Baker wouldn’t eat the bun, but because like I said this girl is really inspiring me to come up with something … My point with bringing her up is that she has no trouble with hard exercise, she’s an athlete, very high level one. And she can make nutritional sacrifices, but a lot of people are just unwilling to do the fasting thing. And they’re unwilling to go 100% carnivore so I’m looking at what kind of results I can get from a carnivore-ish-
Brian Gryn: Ish.
Dr. John Jaquish: Type nutrition, and a deficit and a fasting benefit, and all of that held up by the bulk of the nutrition coming from Fortagen. And oh, it makes life so much easier and people will actually follow it.
Dr. John Jaquish: There’s the guy who’s the CEO of OsteoStrong, his name’s Kyle Zagrodsky, he says all the time, and he says it about nutrition or exercise, what’s the best nutrition program? People will say, “Well, I don’t know, what?” He goes, “The one you’ll follow.” Because ultimately if you won’t follow it … What’s in this book, to be honest it’s hard to follow. I give different levels, like I say one meal a day in there, but the most extreme stuff I talk about in there I think maybe one or two percent of the population will give that a shot. I think most other people will be like, “Oh, I’m going to stay in the beginner area.” Because all this other stuff sounds like it sucks. And going three days with no food and water for example, that sucks.
Brian Gryn: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: There’s no … I can’t answer [inaudible 00:52:16] it sucks. Now, you completely transform in three days, but it still sucks.
Brian Gryn: And you’ve got to, with fasting, like anything, you’ve got to build yourself up to that point, but once you get fat adapted, right. It’s definitely attainable. I don’t do a ton of extended fasts, but every once in a while I’ll do it just to mix it up. But I agree, and what I hear about from a lot of guests is making protein the main source of your meal. Quality protein obviously.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it should really be the only thing you’re going for. It’s the only macro I would ever count. Like I need to clear 250 grams of protein because I weigh 240 pounds.
Brian Gryn: Okay, so about a gram per pound is what you-
Dr. John Jaquish: Gram per pound body weight, that’s the rule. And I always want to shoot a little bit over. It’s way better than being under. So, yeah, but the Fortagen, so with four doses it makes up for 200 grams of protein, so I really need to eat an eight ounce burger or a steak or something. I’m cooking steaks with my parents tonight, my mom was laying the meat out and usually it’s never enough, because it doesn’t matter how many times I tell her how much I was eating, I was eating two and a half pounds, three pounds of meat in one meal. By the way you don’t feel great after that, either.
Brian Gryn: That’s a lot.
Dr. John Jaquish: That is a lot. That last steak you’re not, this is not good anymore. The first bite especially after one meal a day or 48 hours of no food you’re like, “Okay, whatever I can do this.” And you like it, it’s steak, and everybody likes steak. But at the end of the meal it’s like-
Brian Gryn: You’ve had enough.
Dr. John Jaquish: I’m really tired of eating this steak. Yeah.
Brian Gryn: When you say, because I don’t do full … I do carnivorish, I’ll add, I like avocado, is there certain carbs that you like and that you tolerate, that you add in?
Dr. John Jaquish: No.
Brian Gryn: Okay.
Dr. John Jaquish: Kind of hate them all.
Brian Gryn: Do you really?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, they’re just they’re garbage.
Brian Gryn: Okay.
Dr. John Jaquish: Carbs exist in nature to get you fat. And that’s why they appear at the end of summer, the end of the hot season, it’s to get you fat for the winter, it’s to help you survive, but we don’t really that anymore. We have buildings. So, I mean the whole carb timing thing with the workout to replace glycogen, has to do with general energy, it has to do with stretching out the muscles so you can make room for hyperplasia, which is a miracle discovery mostly made by Professor Jose Antonio out of Florida [State 00:55:05], that guy should probably win a Nobel Prize honestly, for really documenting and … His, I believe it was his PHD thesis, really put together, he didn’t call it a meta analysis, but he just put together such a great argument about stretching, forcing more hydration into the muscle and then stretching and then showing that you have a hyperplasia benefit, I mean that’s permanent muscle growth. That is amazing. And he’s never really been recognized-
Brian Gryn: For that.
Dr. John Jaquish: To general public. He’s been recognized by scientists many times, but I’d really like that guy to get more credit for that, because that is just amazing.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, so I guess the moral of the story is have protein the main source of your meals.
Dr. John Jaquish: Absolutely.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, and implement intermittent fasting and if you want to build muscle use the X3 Bar. Am I missing anything?
Dr. John Jaquish: No. No, it’s pretty simple, the lifestyle is easy. And also it’s [inaudible 00:56:17] you talked about who your podcast audience is, when we first launched the product we targeted people who care about strength, even though we were warned not to do so by other companies, the fitness community they cannot handle science. You give [inaudible 00:56:36] argument you’ll never get anywhere, because these people what they say is extremely stupid.
Dr. John Jaquish: And yeah, the level of intelligence in the average fitness fan is very low. And I think also the patience, they just see something that they think sounds too good to be true, even if the science is there, they won’t read it, they won’t even try. So, it was difficult but we pivoted immediately, I’m talking about days after we launched our ads to target busy professionals.
Dr. John Jaquish: And it was sales went through the roof immediately, because a busy professional is looking to optimize their life, everything. Everything they do. If you can cut the time it takes to brush their teeth in half they’ll appreciate it, and they will spend money.
Dr. John Jaquish: Or learn about why they can get away with that.
Brian Gryn: That makes complete sense to target them, because really it takes the excuses out of it, they don’t have any. 10 minutes a day, 15 minutes a day.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right, they want to be fit but they might not have time to get to a gym. They might do a quick day trip somewhere, and they don’t want to, or let’s say a two day trip, and they don’t even want to bring workout clothes with them, because it’s just too much room in their bag. So, I mean I’m wearing jeans and dress shoes today, that’s what I’m going to work out in today because who cares, like I’m at the office.
Brian Gryn: Yeah, no you don’t need much. Do it in your hotel room, for travel that’s a no brainer. Actually just let you know my dad and my brother in law I had them both get one. Because I was like for my dad too he’s lifted his whole life and he’s had some joint issues, and I’m like, “Give it a go, I’m telling you. I’ve been using it for six months, it’s been great.” So, yeah. It’s something I’m going to keep telling people to use it because if you want to get max results in less time who doesn’t want that?
Dr. John Jaquish: Right.
Brian Gryn: No brainer. Well, I appreciate it, I’m glad I got you on, I started using this and then decided to start a podcast and now I’ve got you on, so I really appreciate you coming on and sharing some knowledge with everyone. And I know they’ll get great benefits by using it, so where can people find you? I know obviously X3 is probably the best place, right?
Dr. John Jaquish: I created a landing page so I didn’t have to list off five things of where you can find me. Just go to doctorJ.com.
Brian Gryn: Oh okay.
Dr. John Jaquish: D-O-C-T-O-R, the letter J.com
Brian Gryn: That’s simple, right?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. You can get to my Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, anything.
Brian Gryn: Okay, doctorJ.com. Well thanks Dr. Jaquish, I appreciate it.
Dr. John Jaquish: Thank you. All right, no, this is good.
Brian Gryn: Thanks for listening to the Get Lean, Eat Clean podcast, I understand there are millions of other podcasts out there and you’ve chosen to listen to mine. And I appreciate that.