Dr. John Jaquish talks about Smashing Fitness Falsehoods, Getting Super Ripped Without Weights, And Pushing The Extremes Of Healthy Living. Get ready for a hard hitting, straight shooting, fearless free-thinking fitness leader who will blow your mind and challenge you to rethink many of the basic notions of fitness, diet, and healthy living. Dr. John is a longtime innovator and thought leader in the biomedical fitness scene, having invented the globally popular OsteoStrong training device to fight osteoporosis. His more recent fitness sensation is the X3 Bar, which is revolutionizing the way people think about and perform strength training. His heavy resistance band with attached bar system allows you to work the range of motion with the highest power output (the end of the movement) with the highest resistance. This is the exact opposite of lifting a heavy bar, where you are constrained by the hardest part (e.g., lifting the bar off the floor) of the lift. John will explain more but essentially you get a more challenging and complete workout in a much shorter time period.

We also discuss John’s astonishing dietary strategy of eating just once every 48 hours, when he enjoys a full-bore carnivore feast. That’s right, John is maintaining his extremely muscular, single-digit body fat physique (6’0” and 240lbs) with a zero carb diet and a workout protocol of 10 minutes per day, 6 days a week! Yes indeed, this guy is off the beaten track by many miles and it’s incredibly refreshing to open your mind to greater possibilities, challenge bullshit conventional stupidity that’s been proven wrong over and over but we still blindly follow it, and listen to someone who is not afraid to speak his mind at every corner, and back up his seemingly crazy proclamations with extensive scientific esearch and knowledge base. Check out his 2020 book release, “Weight Training Is A Waste Of Time,” and learn more at JaquishBioMedical.com

Full Transcript

Dr. John Jaquish: You want to tilt it. It’s crooked. [inaudible]. There we go.

Brad Kerns: Pretty delicate.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it is.

Brad Kerns: Just to barely hold a phone. All right. I think we’re good. Yeah, maybe a little higher up. You’re good? How about that? Ready for action?

Dr. John Jaquish: Looks like the camera’s on a horse.

Brad Kerns: I know.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s all right [inaudible].

Brad Kerns: If you slam the table for emphasis, we’ll be all-

Dr. John Jaquish: Sure.

Brad Kerns: All right. There’s some spikes over here.

Dr. John Jaquish: Let me turn the AC off also. I don’t know when that comes in, but… How long do you normally go for, you shoot?

Brad Kerns: For 45 to an hour or whatever we got.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s like, I got a call in about 45 minutes.

Brad Kerns: Okay. Let’s hit it hard, man.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, let’s do it.

Brad Kerns: Dr. John Jaquish? Did I say-

Dr. John Jaquish: Jaquish.

Brad Kerns: Jaquish?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Like Jake and wish.

Brad Kerns: Oh, I like it. Dr. John Jaquish. I am here at X3 world headquarters.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, that’s right.

Brad Kerns: Such a pleasure to join you in your super high-tech studio, especially with the lighting. I think we look particularly good with this professional lighting. It’s amazing that we don’t even have makeup, but we look super sharp.

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, we’re just hands and [inaudible].

Brad Kerns: That too.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: It’s a strong starting point.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it’s good.

Brad Kerns: And I got all kinds of fun stuff to talk to you about. Your videos are fantastic on YouTube.

Dr. John Jaquish: Thank you.

Brad Kerns: You’re a straight shooter. You hit those Q&A’s hard, and you call out the BS in the fitness industry-

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right. There’s a lot of it.

Brad Kerns: … of which there is a lot.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s pretty easy. Yeah. Almost everything.

Brad Kerns: Well, that’s a strong statement, but if you start breaking it down and some of those soundbites, I got from you it’s… yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, well, a lot of the big picture stuff like cardio for fat loss, that’s just, I could write a book about that. I mean, there’s a section… like you know 30 days, my book comes out. Henry’s coauthor on that.

Brad Kerns: Yeah, what’s the title.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s called Weightlifting Is a Waste of Time. And then the subtitle is, And So Is Cardio, There is a Better Way to Get The Body You Want.

Brad Kerns: Besides that, have fun in a gym.

Dr. John Jaquish: You’re right. So, so many things are just gross misinterpretations of research. Like the simplification of looking at calories, like is counting calories good or bad? I could write a book about just that question right there. Well, calories matter. Macro nutrients also matter, micronutrients matter a lot less than we’ve been told, but a calorie is a unit of energy meant to drive the processes in our body is like looking at calories like you’re putting fuel in a car. A car is a very simple machine. It’s also not alive. So that’s a very overly simplified way and overly simplified as a term, that’s a nice way of saying wrong.

So it’s wrong. You just can’t look at the body like calories or fuel. Okay, a lot of things can be fuel. Your skin can be fuel. You can metabolize your own skin. I have a huge scar on this shoulder from a branding. My fraternity, it was an honor you get the president, you have the brand. I didn’t regret it. It was cool.

But this thing since I’ve been doing… So I eat one meal every 48 hours. Since I started doing that fast thing, I go into long periods of [inaudible]. The scar is actually eating itself from the inside. So it’s like for 20 years it had been there, when I was president of the fraternity 20 years ago. Is that right? Yeah. About. A little less than that.

And then it’s been the same ever since it healed up in the fraternity house, and then all of a sudden it’s disappearing to the point where I can be in the swimming pool and somebody doesn’t even see it. And before it had a thick scar raised off of my skin like a quarter millimeter. You’d see it, there’s a shadow underneath it.

Brad Kerns: So they’re going to have to get you again, I guess. You have to go back to the reunion, get branded. Or not.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, well I’d like to see them try. Yeah, I won’t want it a second time. I got him once already. It’s cool.

Brad Kerns: Wow. So, this one meal every 48 hours at the level that you’re burning calories and building muscle and preserving muscle, that’s a fascinating strategy. How did you come to that? That’s out there, man.

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, so it has to do with looking at what happens during fasting. There’s a lot of myths around fasting, and fasting is a hard thing to sell a product around. So anything you read about fasting, you know it’s the truth, because no one’s trying to sell you anything because literally you eat nothing. So it’s hard for somebody to have a marketing budget behind that.

Though I have seen fasting-mimicking products which-

Brad Kerns: Right, with the powder included.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, like bars and stuff and it mimics fasting. It’s like, no, it doesn’t. That’s stupid. So when you’re fasting, you’re not consuming any calories. There’s a caveat to that. There’s a 50 calorie thing.

Brad Kerns: Same thing. The misappropriation of the term is hilarious because I’m on brown rice fast, I’m on a coffee fast, I’m on a juice fast.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Brad Kerns: Well, it’s a oxymoron.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Well, coffee has no calories so it’s-

Brad Kerns: Well, I guess, you’d be on, right I’m on the-

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, that’s… You know the idea is-

Brad Kerns: … dog walking fast or something.

Dr. John Jaquish: … absence of calories or-

Brad Kerns: So, once every 48 hours, that’s your caloric consumption?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: [inaudible] And then when it’s time to eat, man?

Dr. John Jaquish: I eat.

Brad Kerns: Maybe we want to be invited over for that, huh?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Sometimes the chefs come out and watch the guy eat everything he ordered because they can’t believe he can. So yeah, when I go to Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, I get the 40 ounce porterhouse.

Brad Kerns: They have that hidden off the menu or what?

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, they call it the porterhouse for two, but I eat it myself. And then I get two orders of shrimp on top of that. So probably like eight ounces of shrimp or maybe six ounces of shrimp and then 40 ounces of a porterhouse.

Brad Kerns: And you’re also in a highly carnivore rush where you’re not eating many carbs even at these feasts.

Dr. John Jaquish: So, I think even though I’ve tried to explain this very carefully, my words get misinterpreted because it’s like the news. People want to watch the news that tells them that they’re right, not the truth. They want very little to do with the truth. And I can just tell by like, I hear something from one of my friends and I’m like, ‘I’m guessing you heard that on CNN, because there’s no accuracy to that at all.’ Just a Google search can disprove that. Like, ‘What?’ But it’s like they want to watch what makes them feel better.

And people want nutrition, which makes them feel better. In fact, if you look at keywords that pop up on Google, it’s like diet where I can eat anything I want.

Brad Kerns: That’s a highly searched phrase.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s one of the hot thing. You don’t have to type very much of that and bang the whole sentence shows up. It’s like they want to figure out how they can do everything they did to get really fat yet somehow get the opposite result which is-

Brad Kerns: Have cake and eat it too.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right. There we go, have cake and eat it too.

Brad Kerns: So, this feast, what’s the composition? Is it meat oriented?

Dr. John Jaquish: No, a hundred percent.

Brad Kerns: Yeah. A hundred percent? So you’re-

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, I pretty much don’t eat anything.

Brad Kerns: … a carb-free human?

Dr. John Jaquish: So, carbohydrates have two purposes. Well I should say three purposes, because I’m sitting next to an endurance athlete.

Brad Kerns: Former endurance athlete. Thank you. After I listened to Dr. John [crosstalk]-

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right, that’s right. You’re doing much better now. You’re not beating up on endurance.

Brad Kerns: Well, your one-liner that got me was cardio burns up muscle and preserves fat or causes you to store fat?

Dr. John Jaquish: Right. You just-

Brad Kerns: And we never thought about it in those terms.

Dr. John Jaquish: … got it right. Cardio, you’re just… It’s the uphill battle. It’s-

Brad Kerns: That’s called aging. If you want to call it a related term, the essence of aging is losing muscle mass.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right. It’s accelerates aging. I’ve seen that.

Brad Kerns: Oh sure? I had no wrinkles-

Dr. John Jaquish: I’ve seen that documented where it’s like, when somebody looks-

Brad Kerns: … before my career started and no gray hair either.

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, there’s a guy in the fitness industry. His name’s Fred Seabright, he’s a handsome chap. He has the same haircut and I think he just retired and he worked for, I don’t want to say. I shouldn’t say who he worked for, because I might screw this up. But great guy and I’d bring him up on stage and I say, ‘This is Fred. Fred’s my twin brother.’ Of course, he looks a lot older than me. I’m like, ‘He got married. That’s how all this shit happened.’ So, keep that in mind. I distracted myself. What the hell are we talking about?

Brad Kerns: I’m still curious how you came to this eating pattern-

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, carbohydrates. Yes. So there’s three things carbohydrates can do for you. And I have a very different approach in view of type two diabetes. It’s based on an observation of bears like brown bears, black bears, grizzly bears. So a bear will give itself type two diabetes every year.

Brad Kerns: Chowing those berries?

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right. They only eat the berries at the end-

Brad Kerns: Berries.

Dr. John Jaquish: … at the end of the summer, right before the winter, well fall time, I guess. And so they get like… Now, of course that’s when carbohydrates show up. So they’d probably eat it all year long except the problem is when they give themselves type two diabetes, it’s a mode your body goes into to get you as fat as possible. I don’t believe type two diabetes is a dysfunction of the human body. I believe it’s a function of human body because in nature, carbohydrates, most places in the world, only show up for a couple weeks right at the end of the fall, before it starts to get really cold. So getting as fat as possible is a survival mechanism because bears hibernate. So they don’t have a choice. They’re not going to eat anything because they’re just sitting in a hole. so that’s part of it.

The other part of it is, the more adipose tissue you have, the better chance of surviving the cold you have. So type two diabetes is not a disease from my perspective.

Brad Kerns: Right, [crosstalk] evolutionary advantage.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, It’s something you can trigger so that you can get as fat as possible because you want to get as fat as possible to survive the winter. Now we don’t live like that anymore. We have buildings and air conditioning.

Brad Kerns: Oh winter.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right. Also, we live in California, and I mean other than the terrible taxes, weather is pretty good. So we don’t have to necessarily worry about freezing to death. But when you look at the bear model… Now animal models, you don’t want to look at an animal model and say, ‘That’s what we should eat,’ because we’re not any animal other than human, but it’s a great example. And you also know that animals aren’t screwing up their own studies like people are by like lying about what they ate and drank, which people notoriously do because they want to believe that they are doing something that they might not exactly be doing.

So, survey-based studies is like, all right, well maybe. But animals, you know a bear didn’t go out drinking every night, a bear didn’t order pizza instead of hunting deer, because they just don’t do that. I mean, at least I’ve never seen that. So that’s really the main purpose of carbohydrates.

Brad Kerns: To get you fat.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, it’s to get you fat. Now, there’s two exceptions to that. When you do really extensive endurance, you got to have immediate fuel because you burned up all your muscle glycogen. And how quick did you burn up your glycogen?

Brad Kerns: Takes hours.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Hours. And then you want to keep going, you-

Brad Kerns: Got some sugar.

Dr. John Jaquish: You need some sugar, right.

Brad Kerns: This show is sponsored by the… No, it’s not sorry, but you get your gel where you drink and you keep going.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, yeah. Your gel pack or whatever, and it’s basically like a liquid candy bar. And then you can keep going because your body can metabolize that, but you’re basically limping along at that point. Like that’s… Now all sports have a tendency to, at the most extreme degree, cast health aside for sake of the victory.

Brad Kerns: Sure.

Dr. John Jaquish: How many football players sacrifice their joints so they can play one more season? All of them?

Brad Kerns: Yeah. If I don’t, then I’m [crosstalk], and some other guy will.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right. The other guy will. Right, [crosstalk], yeah you will.

Brad Kerns: … well, the same as endurance. You’re going to go a little more further on the bike than the next guy and burn up your hormones and everything else. So that was the other purpose for carbs is to contribute to the fueling of extreme endurance, and did you say there’s three purposes.

Dr. John Jaquish: And then the third purpose I would say is hydrating. Like you could hydrate with sodium. Sodium’s in a lot of different places, and we do get plenty of it. And you cramp, if you don’t have, mostly sodium, though there are other electrolytes. But if you want to hydrate a muscle, you can hydrate it like after you deplete glycogen, and then you can actually have a slight acceleration of growth. So like there’s a protocol that’s in the book where I talk about using vasodilator like an hour before a workout, and then doing your workout. And then having a very limited amount of carbohydrates, it’s calculated based on your body weight. And then you can have more blood flow into the muscle, which delivers more nutrients, you have a little bit more growth.

Brad Kerns: Okay, so raise your hand out there if you ascribe to any of those three. Not many people probably have-

Dr. John Jaquish: No, most people just eat carbohydrates because they have no self-control, or they have the self-control of a child. I see the addiction everywhere. The foods are engineered to be addictive so it’s not like… I’m not saying the average person is just a loser. I’m saying the average person got sucked into the addictive food pattern and doesn’t want to believe that they should break it.

Brad Kerns: Right. I mean, what would you say to the huge plant-based advocate who thinks that blueberries, broccoli, kale leaves are essential to human health?

Dr. John Jaquish: I’d say prove it. Yeah. I’d say, show me the micronutrients that you’re taking in and why you need those.

Brad Kerns: Yeah, you know it’s-

Dr. John Jaquish: Because there’s no proof to any of that.

Brad Kerns: … getting disproven now with the carnivore movement, I think very effectively.

Dr. John Jaquish: Very effectively, yeah.

Brad Kerns: Yeah. Or I mean Dr. Casey [Mints] used this term redundant pathways. Dr. [Saldino] says the same thing where you do get an antioxidant response from consuming the broccoli. It’s highly validated and isn’t that great? But you also get the same from jumping into cold water and getting that hormetic stressor.

Dr. John Jaquish: Or, say I got a-

Brad Kerns: Or fasting.

Dr. John Jaquish: I’ve got a slightly different perspective. You only need antioxidants if you’re oxidizing. So, because the carnivore diet is anti-inflammatory, there’s no inflammatories and there’s no oxalates. So you take in oxalates with vegetables, which gives you inflammation, and then you got to go all over the world to get your antioxidants. It’s like you’re taking the poison and the antidote.

Brad Kerns: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Smart. I’m being sarcastic [inaudible].

Brad Kerns: Hopefully, You’re following this listener because the plants have natural toxins. This is also undisputed. This is not just dr. John popping off.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right. Thank you for that.

Brad Kerns: So, you get benefits, but you also have some… There’s a stressor aspect to it. And we’ve been socialized to envision the blueberry as the antioxidant powerhouse of the diet, but it’s because it’s stimulating a defensive response to [crosstalk].

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, and other vegetables have… Every plant has oxalates. Basically, let’s give everybody a little brief on oxalates. Like the way an animal keeps you from eating it is, it runs away, or at least it tries. And then the way a plant keeps you from eating it is, it gives you a mild toxin. So, at some point you’re like, ‘I’m sick of eating this,’ and you go away. This is true of animals, now they have higher tolerances for oxalates, but if you can engineer food so that it has less oxalates, the animals have less inflammation too. No, I mean like a herbivore has got tolerance to oxalates that’s through the roof, whereas we do not, which I think does help indicate that we’re much better with much more animal protein.

Also, the tragedy of the plant-based diet. The Western diet is already 70% plant-based because bread is plant-based, a lot of candy bars are plant-based-

Brad Kerns: Concentrated calories.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. I mean, what’s chocolate? That’s planet-based. So the reason you hear so much about the benefits of plant-based nutrition is, because there’s some studies on it that were funded by Nabisco. Now, why does Nabisco want everybody to be a vegan? It’s because Nabisco knows the vegans don’t eat blueberries and kale most of the time. Most of the time they’re just inhaling-

Brad Kerns: They don’t like [crosstalk] but it’s just snacks.

Dr. John Jaquish: … candy bars and crap. It’s like Triscuits and cookies and it’s like, ‘Oh, it’s vegan.’ I know a couple of vegans that will go through a sleeve of Oreos in five minutes. And they’re like, ‘It’s vegan.’ Oreo cookies, that’s like… that and obesity go hand-in-hand. It’s just sugar, what are you doing? But that’s what they think. Probably not the listeners of your podcast falling in that category, but I’m blown away when I see vegans just… like Oreo cookies, they’re amazingly-

Brad Kerns: Yeah, we all tiptoe and dance in these areas. I mean, no one’s perfect, and especially the average person doesn’t have time to live and breathe this stuff all the time. But in your case you’re a thought leader so you’ve stumbled upon this 48-hour pattern. I assume that you feel like this is giving you the maximum health benefits, inflammation control, even performance, because you’re super concerned about that too?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Everything.

Brad Kerns: Yeah. So how did you come on the 48 hours-

Dr. John Jaquish: I did some trial and error and I looked at where the benefits of fasting kind of maximize and then start to drop off a little bit. So the growth hormone goes up at 36 hours really high, like 2000% increase and then begins to drop off after that and kind of level out. There’s sort of a general question I have where I’d really like to talk to some nutrition, experts, and problem is most nutrition experts I know, they have far more questions than answers that they can’t get answered. So, I mean, I don’t blame… It’s a hard industry because epidemiology is one of the lowest forms of research, you know surveys because you can’t take a group of people and put them in a cage and feed them exactly what you want.

Brad Kerns: We’ve done that a few times with Dr. K Hill and the starvation experiments that dated back to the sixties and-

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, see back, right-

Brad Kerns: … they see [crosstalk] data.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, back. That’s all we got though. We have some very old research on that kind of thing where people had to be basically imprisoned so that you-

Brad Kerns: And now we have Dr. John doing it for you in real time, 2020, baby.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, right.

Brad Kerns: Once every two days. A feast or famine pattern.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Brad Kerns: What about the exercise? How does that layer in? I mean, you feel great and have level energy for 47 hours after? Your meal must take an hour to eat so you got-

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, yeah it takes an hour to eat. Yeah, like last night I went to a steakhouse. I had-

Brad Kerns: They go, ‘Watch out, here he comes. He’s pulling up-

Dr. John Jaquish: I had four [crosstalk]-

Brad Kerns: … We can hear his car coming a block away. No kidding.’ And then they roll out the table for you.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right, that’s right. Yeah, I ate four steaks-

Brad Kerns: Four steaks.

Dr. John Jaquish: … some shrimp also. I mean the alternate source of… Did I… ? No, I had four steaks and then I had an appetizer, which was also a steak. It was just cut with, I want to say some water crest sauce, which is kind of nothing, but it’s got a taste to it. Yeah.

Brad Kerns: So, then you wake up the next day and the next day, and you’re doing your thing your-

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, workout as normal, just fasted. I worked out this morning.

Brad Kerns: And let’s talk about your workout regimen. It’s very simple.

Dr. John Jaquish: Very simple. I use the X3 for 10 minutes.

Brad Kerns: 10 minutes?

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, it’s… that’s, yeah.

Brad Kerns: Five? Six days a week? What do you do?

Dr. John Jaquish: Six days a week, yeah.

Brad Kerns: So, you do four sets?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: Those familiar with the device, have the workout one and the workout two, incredibly simple, and the whole thing takes 10 minutes.

Dr. John Jaquish: It takes me a little bit longer because the larger a muscle becomes, the more blood it needs to function correctly. So this is part of-

Brad Kerns: So, few minutes for me.

Dr. John Jaquish: Let me throw another-

Brad Kerns: 15 for the doc.

Dr. John Jaquish: Let me give another myth of the fitness industry. You hear guys who are really all about cardio saying, ‘Oh, strength athletes, they have no insurance. So they have bad hearts, they’re all going to die of a heart attack.’ You hear that all the time, and it’s total BS. In fact, the strength athlete… There is research that supports the statement, the strength athlete might actually have a healthier cardiovascular system, but the illusion of poor endurance comes from large musculature because, I run up a flight of stairs and blood is pumping into my glutes and my calves and in my quads, which are tremendous. They’re huge. So, because those muscles are so big, I might run up five, six flights of stairs and I’m gassed when I get to the top. It’s like, ah-

Brad Kerns: Because you just took-

Dr. John Jaquish: … because you’re really breathing hard.

Brad Kerns: … 240 pounds up the stairs.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, yeah, I weigh 240 pounds and I-

Brad Kerns: Kipchoge weighs 120, so he can keep his blood in a marathon.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Right.

Brad Kerns: Right, [crosstalk] easier [crosstalk]-

Dr. John Jaquish: Because he can run up six flights of stairs and it’s just like nothing happened.

Brad Kerns: I see. Okay so-

Dr. John Jaquish: But his legs-

Brad Kerns: It appears that you have poor cardio, but if you did like a weight neutral event, like Sean Baker setting the world record in rowing with a large amount of mass, but he’s not carrying it along.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Brad Kerns: Even the Tour de France, the guys who were sprinting are way bigger than the guys who climb the mountains, because they just put out more power. Their cardio is phenomenal.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: It’s just there’s no penalty due to the weight bearing muscle size.

Dr. John Jaquish: For me. Right.

Brad Kerns: Yeah. You get that people? I like that comeback. You see a guy lugging down the street, a bodybuilder and you’re like, ‘Wow, how pathetic,’ but he’s running with 240 pounds and you’re running with 127, right?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: Yeah. So the cardio is very healthy. You don’t have that risk of scarring and inflammation from overdoing it like the endurance world is highly concerned about.

Dr. John Jaquish: No.

Brad Kerns: And then you have the strength.

Dr. John Jaquish: When I do my workout, I actually try not to do it on video all that often because I’m gasping for air when I’m done with it when I really do it. I mean, I could fake it like a lot of people do in lifting videos. I was talking to Leo Costa this morning, the bodybuilder guy who wrote Serious Growth. I was on his podcast and he was talking about how… I made some comment about the CrossFit weights, you know the plastic weights that all look like they weigh 45 pounds, but they’re really like five pounds-

Brad Kerns: 15, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: … or 10 pounds, 15 or whatever.

Brad Kerns: They put the pressure.

Dr. John Jaquish: They all look the same, and so you see somebody who doesn’t look athletic at all, and then they look like they’re doing reps with 300 pounds and you find out it’s really like 80 pounds.

So, apparently they’d have these strength shows where they have a 145 pound dumbbell and they’d invite these bodybuilders there for… This is back in like probably the eighties. He didn’t tell me when, but I know when he was a competitive athlete. They’re made out of plastic. They’re all fake. So, the stagehand would carry it away who was a guy who never worked out.

Brad Kerns: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s just some little guy.

Brad Kerns: Just for entertainment.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, but nobody saw it so they would do these shows of strength. My point is, working out when you have and when you’re… it’s just not pretty is my point. I’m so out of breath, and so just devastated at the end of a set. Like some people, I don’t want them to see that, because they’ll be like, ‘Well, I don’t want to do that.’ Well, yeah, you won’t do that because you won’t get as winded as I am because you don’t have 240 pounds of muscle blood is pumping to. That’s why I explain that, just not show it.

Brad Kerns: But the nature of the workout, I got to say it was hard for me to conceive that a system like this could deliver the results of much more prolonged and seemingly complex workouts. But the way this resistance concept works, with the X3 bar, you told me I was going to be fried after one set and you can’t really fully experience it until the next day. I think I wrote you. I went for a swim. I did the bench press, did the tricep thing, and then I went for a swim like I always. Almost couldn’t make it across the lake because the sense of fatigue in my muscles was like nothing you ever experienced from lifting heavy bars.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it takes 36 hours to really recover from a weight workout and grow, growth be complete.

Brad Kerns: So, why is the maneuvering, the resistance straps giving you a more complete or more challenging workout in a short time than hoisting the heavy bars.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, the way the product is designed, we use heavier… we had to produce heavier latex bands than ever had existed. So really thick. The heaviest one that we have the elite band-

Brad Kerns: Military grade.

Dr. John Jaquish: … that one will deliver like 600 pounds in the deadlift. Like Dr. Baker, he’s a 6'4, so he stretches it further. So it’s over 700 pounds for him.

Brad Kerns: Oh sure, your height is going to be a factor.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. I’m six foot, so it’s 615 for me [inaudible], but that delivering force where your body is designed to handle incredible forces and then discharging that force where your body is less able. And it was all based on my research that I did in London for the medical device I created 13 years ago. So when looking at that data, we want to exhaust the musculature to the most complete degree. We want the greatest, most powerful stimulus so what we do is we exhaust first, the strongest range of motion with a very high weight, and then the way it’s changing is removing. So then we do mid-range repetitions with a weight that might be half, or two thirds that, and then-

Brad Kerns: Yeah, that’s what gets you.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. That’s so devastating. And then the last repetition, one or two repetitions may only be like an inch in the weaker range of motion where normally you’d be prone to injury if you were holding a regular weight, but you can to a deeper level of fatigue because by the time you’re that exhausted, you’re not using a very high weight in the weaker range of motion.

So, my first reps, so my chest press, are 540 pounds and I’ll do 20 of those. And-

Brad Kerns: That’s the effective tension on the band at maximum tension.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: Watch the videos, people. We’re not going to do gesturing here on this video, but watch the X3 videos. But I think the concept was easily embraced by me because I’m thinking of, I can’t get five… You told me I was chest pressing 230 or something?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: And I’m like, I can only bench press 125-

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Brad Kerns: … with a bar because I can’t get it the first few inches.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Brad Kerns: So, you were describing-

Dr. John Jaquish: When somebody handed it to you at the top-

Brad Kerns: At the top, and then I’m really putting out the last six inches. I can do it.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, you can handle it there, but you can’t handle it at the bottom. Even if you tried an Essentra contraction, lowering it, you’d probably tear your pack of tricep on the way down, because all of a sudden it’s a weight you, by definition can’t handle. So what we need is a weight that changes as we move it. And that’s what X3 really is.

Because I mean there’s some people that work out basically, so they can talk about it. These are ego-driven people. So they do like a really crummy form sad, and then they’re like, ‘Oh, I squatted 800 pounds for two reps.’ And you look at the video and you’re like, ‘No, you put 800 pounds on a bar and you un-racked it and suffered for about 10 seconds, and then you’re-racked it and called it two reps.’ And there’s people all over the internet like that. I think those people are just clowns.

So, what do we really want when we exercise? We want to change our bodies. We want to make the human body a more powerful, more efficient, more disease-free machine capable of greater outputs. So right now, I’m helping seven NFL players completely switch away from weights and use X3. Actually, it’s more than that now. I think it’s… No, it’s eight, and it’s about to be a couple more because these guys all talk to each other, even amongst teams, because they get traded so often. So, they have friends on other teams, and it’s like, ‘Hey, you got to check out this X3.’

So, I love working with NFL players because they don’t care how much they bench press. They care how they play. So actually being stronger… Oh God, I wish I could request Instagram and Facebook to just not allow stupid comments from stupid commenters who talk about how much they bench press. Because unless you’re a competitor in the sport of the bench press, it doesn’t matter. Being stronger matters, and that’s very poorly measured by what you bench press. Mostly because if you become risk averse, like you turn 25 and start thinking about what you do, and then you’re like, ‘Whoa, I’m risking injury here so I’m going to train lighter,’ well then you stop growing. That’s why people stop growing. They start training lighter. So there’s no getting away from heavy. So, X3 allows that even-heavier-than-you-would-normally-get weight, but it’s strategic in where it puts the weight on your body, so that you’re guaranteed a much greater level of growth.

Brad Kerns: So, the most difficult part with the bar is, let’s say the starting point, getting the bar off your chest or getting it off the ground. And that’s the easiest part within the X3-

Dr. John Jaquish: With X3.

Brad Kerns: … because you’re not pulling the strap yet?

Dr. John Jaquish: There’s some tension on-

Brad Kerns: Tension, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: … there’s a little tension, but like I said, in my chest press, it’s 540 pounds at the top, 300 pounds in the middle, and 100 pounds at the bottom. I’m a really strong guy so a hundred pounds for a chest press is nothing, so I can breeze right through that. Now in the last couple of reps, that a hundred pounds becomes very heavy because I fatigued the rest of the musculature. And I don’t know how technical your audience appreciates, but that gives us the benefit of periodization in one set, because we’re taking the muscle in the stronger range of motion to myofibril fatigue, which is growing the density of the cell and-

Brad Kerns: Through heavy lifting few reps?

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, it’s from the fatigue of the cellular structure. I don’t want to over-simplify-

Brad Kerns: Yeah, because [crosstalk] doing that-

Dr. John Jaquish: … because remember over-simplification is a nice way of saying wrong.

Brad Kerns: Yes, it’s be wrong.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. So we fatigue in the range of motion where we can handle the most weight. Now, we’re not running out of contract-out fuel. We’re not running out of oxygen. We’re getting the muscle to the point where the structure of the cell starts to say, ‘No, no, no, no, no. We’re going to start shutting some cells off and limiting your capacity,’ as you go to fatigue, then you have less cells working or less cells working at a hundred percent efficiency.

Then you do the mid-range repetitions. So you’re exhausting the fuels in the cell, the ATP, the glycogen and the creatine phosphate, that affects muscular endurance. When I say muscular endurance, I don’t mean like endurance endurance. It’s-

Brad Kerns: It’s like a high rep workout.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it’s… Well-

Brad Kerns: So doing high and doing heavy at the same time set?

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, it’s like a low rep, explosive workout while at the same time, a higher rep blood volume-type workout, or less. Yeah, it just depends on which portion of the set that you’re in.

Brad Kerns: So, that’s what I’m feeling 24 to 36 hours later?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: Is this I mean total depletion of the energy fuels.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yep, exactly.

Brad Kerns: And what were the two types of cell growth? There’s the myo-

Dr. John Jaquish: Myofibril.

Brad Kerns: The myofibril.

Dr. John Jaquish: And sarcoplasmic.

Brad Kerns: And sarcoplasmic is size.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: You see getting bigger and then the myofibril is more density inside?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, that’s like a gymnast, has incredible myofibril growth, because they have a high power-to-weight ratio. Just so you know that.

Brad Kerns: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: A lot of lower weight class lifters will have that, like competitive weightlifters. Very explosive. They also really work on the neurology of the lift so a lot of drills to basically get the weight moving with momentum and then jump underneath it. There’s so much technique, like golfers think there’s a lot of technique in a golf swing? Look at a clean and jerk. Way more. And you have to be exact. You screw up your golf swing, you slice into the woods. You screw up your clean and jerk and you have maybe a life-changing injury. Yeah, that’s a serious… Don’t get into a sport if you’re not willing to accept that there is potential injury everywhere.

Brad Kerns: Well, even lifting the heavy bar in a moderate level for someone my age, I come around and get sore so frequently that it’s really disappointing because this impacts my main goals of doing sports specific training, high jumps, sprinting, or whatever. And I know how important it is to put my body under heavy resistance load, but to have something that’s going to have that massively reduced risk of any kind of injury or muscle soreness, I think that’s where the huge attractiveness is.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Brad Kerns: So, why is this going to have less risk of that muscle soreness, muscle damage than doing sets with heavy bars?

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, this is another thing that really, really irritates people who have been lifting weights for years. The idea of muscle damage. Now, an endurance athlete gives him or herself more muscle damage than a weightlifter. So why don’t they grow big muscles? In fact, they’re pretty much losing muscle most of the time instead of gaining it. Damage is inversely related to growth. So the idea that you go in-

Brad Kerns: So, soreness is not good?

Dr. John Jaquish: Soreness is not good or bad because soreness is our perception of what’s going on as opposed to what actually is going on. Here’s something funny. You can’t feel lactic acid. So, when people are like, ‘Oh, I’m sore, because all the lactic acid,’ no, no you’re sore, because of damage. So lactic acid is not acid in like an espionage film where somebody gets acid thrown on their face and then they look like a monster after that. It’s not like that.

So, damage needs to be attenuated by protein synthesis. This is where people made the mistake of assuming, because protein synthesis is happening, you’re growing. You’re not growing. You’re just repairing the damage, and only when the damage is repaired, you can grow, but you can only go through so much protein synthesis in a given period of time. If you can fatigue the muscle without damaging the muscle, then all of the protein synthesis is appropriated for growth. There’s multiple studies on this, been out for a long time, and yet the fitness industry has no clue. None. In fact, I’ve never heard anybody say it. I think there might’ve been a Testosterone Nation article that referenced it. It kind of explained it maybe incorrectly, but then every once in a while they also have some of the researchers do articles to explain what the article means.

This is one of the problems with academic research is, it’s not… I’ll give it to people for… They don’t want to read it because it’s hard to read. And sometimes if you’re not conditioned to read that and you don’t know anything about statistics, it’ll take you a week to understand a study, like one. Whereas I might read 50 studies in a day, but that’s what I do so it becomes faster. Like I know the difference between a Spear Monroe statistical test and analysis of variants, but a lot of people just see those acronyms and they Google it. And then there’s five pages of statistics lessons to understand what a Spear Monroe test is and how it works and why you would choose it. And they’re like, ‘Oh the hell with this. I’m not doing this, not reading this.’ So, I get it, every once in a while, but, ultimately the industry just fails to pick up on these things.

In fact, I’ve been to the Annual Congress of the American College of Sports Medicine a number of times, and I’ve talked to some of the leadership and their number one pain point, of the American College of Sports Medicine is, it’s so difficult for them to get the fitness industry to pay attention to what’s being published in the journals. They’re the ones… the ACSM has a couple of different journals and they’re all fantastic. Then there’s the Journal of Applied Physiology, which is not an ACSM journal, but it’s the top, like the best. And then there’s the European Journal of Applied Physiology. There’s a couple of European sports science journals.

They all have the same problem. It’s that the people who are leading the general population in exercise science don’t read anything. Nothing. Or they might read articles written by bodybuilders, which are potentially not even written by the actual bodybuilder, they just borrow his name, and give him 500 bucks.

Brad Kerns: Or they’re succeeding in spite of themselves, which I see a lot in endurance scene where the championship collegiate running program is destroying young people year after year but-

Dr. John Jaquish: But it doesn’t care because they graduate.

Brad Kerns: Right, or four of them survive-

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s their problem [crosstalk]. Right, right.

Brad Kerns: … and 17 of them do mediocre and 12 of them get injured, but they don’t care because the four are winning the races. It’s ignoring a lot of science and going by the model of the elite athletes, which may be highly flawed even today. I mean, you got nine NFL players, but you don’t have 309, but if you did, there may be less guys on the sidelines who are having joint problems from messing around [crosstalk]-

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh absolutely. I’ll make the same comment. The ones that are sticking with it a hundred percent? Like, ‘My joints have never felt better, and I’m actually stronger than when I entered the league.’ So yeah, I do need to get a lot more of those guys and I need… No, I will say that strength coaches are much better about reading research and understanding what’s going on. They read the scientific journals. Strength coaches are typically people with a master’s or PhD in sports science different than what I study, but they do want to really get a better understanding because this it’s their job and they want an edge on the other strength coaches.

Brad Kerns: A lot of them are athletic too I noticed, themselves.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yes.

Brad Kerns: And lend some credibility in, if you’re roaming around an NFL locker room, you probably don’t want to be-

Dr. John Jaquish: Overweight.

Brad Kerns: … a nerd with your glasses, and no physique. They’re putting things to the test themselves. So a 10 minute workout. I know we got to get you rolling to your next point in your busy day, but that’s got to have a ton-

Dr. John Jaquish: I got 10 more minutes.

Brad Kerns: … of hormonal benefits. So we’re going to have 10 more minutes of-

Dr. John Jaquish: Hormones, oh yeah.

Brad Kerns: … a little simulator X3 workout. This is how short the workout is, people, from-

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right.

Brad Kerns: … here to the end of the show. Oh my goodness, but the big deal in endurance was the destruction of immune function and hormonal function due to the prolonged nature of the training. And we just couldn’t escape it, and so now it seems like there’s a viable opportunity. For example, the CrossFit enthusiast, who’s discovering hormone and immune suppression because the workouts are too prolonged and too stressful.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, well, there’s some really large studies when we look at the metrics of people who exercise for what’s called in academic journals, recreation, meaning you choose to-

Brad Kerns: Right, you’re not getting paid, I guess.

Dr. John Jaquish: I don’t really call my workout recreation. It’s not like sipping the scotch on the beach. It’s hard work, but yeah, I do choose to do it. Nobody forces me to and I like it, but people who have manual labor jobs or have to physically exert themselves all day long, their bodies are destroyed because they’re more like endurance athletes.

Brad Kerns: Repetitive stress and things, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it’s just all day like beating on your body. We are not meant to exert ourselves with any kind of-

Brad Kerns: With workouts, lifting boxes-

Dr. John Jaquish: … intensity for very long. Yeah. I mean, other than endurance athletes, nobody has a four-hour workout.

Brad Kerns: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Endurance athletes do.

Brad Kerns: Sure.

Dr. John Jaquish: So, it’s really symbolic of how we exert ourselves, but it shouldn’t be for an extended period of time, I think. X3 happens to be very efficient. There was… I didn’t go for like, ‘I got to design a workout that’s 10 minutes.’ It just happened to be you can stimulate half the body, we split the body in two different ways, so there’s half the body one day, half the body the next day, because you want to wait for at least 36 hours for those to recover.

Now, you also could in theory, do a full body workout which would be just… I would be in really rough shape if I did that. That’d be devastating and it would take me a lot longer than 10 or even 20 minutes. It would probably take me an hour because I’d just be gasping for air between sets, but you could in theory, take both workouts and put them together.

I talked to someone, probably the best group exercise group I’ve ever seen. It’s a group called Health House and they’re based in Los Angeles. They’re were pointing out that people can work out with great intensity for 10 minutes. And then they started to really just… and even like the endurance guys, they immediately like at the 10 minute mark… And I don’t know. I think their comment was, people lose their motivation. It’s like, ‘No, they lose their glycogen.’ It’s probably psychological and mechanical. They go hand-in-hand. Your body’s just like, ‘Oh no, we’re not going any further.’

Brad Kerns: Yeah. Then Dr. Tim Noakes central governor theory stating that there is some glycogen left in the muscle. It’s not a glycogen depletion-

Dr. John Jaquish: Totally, yes. Tim Noakes is the man.

Brad Kerns: It’s your brain saying, ‘Hey man, you’re down to the bottom of the barrel and I’m not going to let you go any further because I don’t want you collapsing on the ground.’ And I could feel that central nervous system fatigue because it’s so many reference points where you’ve gone and you’re like, ‘F this, what am I doing in here?’ All of a sudden, I’ve gone from super positive energy and motivation, and now it’s like, you’re done. You’re done when you’re done. Sometimes it’s in the middle of a race, unfortunately, but when that point hits, I think in training, you should steer far clear of that.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, completely.

Brad Kerns: And here’s the fitness industry telling you, ‘No, do one more set because then you can really high five everyone around you on the other bikes and push beyond,’ and that’s really destructive especially to a recreational fitness enthusiastic wants to go have fun.

Dr. John Jaquish: I mean, I don’t know if this happens to endurance athletes, but when I first started lifting, I was in a learning mode back then, but not like I have been in the last 10 years. So I wasn’t a scientist, I was in high school, so I was doing what everybody else was doing. There you go. So I was… The camera’s on a horse. I was just doing the same nonsense crap everybody else was doing, like five sets of five or five sets of 10 or whatever. And I got to the point where I remember last couple sets of the workout, my workout was like an hour, I remember my ears starting to ring, just ringing. Yeah. And I thought like, what? I felt awful. My ears are ringing and I thought like, what is going on here?

And I don’t know if that was a sign of overtraining, but it certainly was my body’s way of going, ‘No, we’re not doing this anymore.’ And I think that there are little signs that tell you you’re over-training, I’m sure.

Brad Kerns: Oh sure. Especially before the workout starts, I always knew when I was going… My head would knock around, it wouldn’t feel right, and you just feel blah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, there’s a… Well, the San Francisco marathon, I’ve had some friends run that and I usually wait holding a cup of coffee because I slept in, just to see them as they cross the finish line. And sometimes like the gibberish that comes out of their mouth, like they can’t function, like their head’s not there. Whereas I know when I do work out with X3, I have laser-focus. I can go from my X3 workout right into a meeting. I might be a little bit out of breath, but I have no cognitive performance issues at all.

Brad Kerns: So, I guess you’re getting a optimal fight or flight spike of hormones during the workout. It’s over with in 10 minutes, then you’re returning to homeostasis and getting all these adaptive benefits rather than having those stress hormones become catabolic and destructive even to brain function. I know there’s a direct association between that.

Dr. John Jaquish: I wouldn’t say there’s a lot of stress hormone. Also-

Brad Kerns: It’s not long enough to really get you in that-

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, I mean, cortisol and adrenaline are seen when you have those overtraining issues, like an hour-long workout. For a 10 or 15 minute workout, not really. No. I mean, I haven’t tested this with X3 specifically, but I do know that people who do a 10 minute workout, even with high intensity, like they’re doing just 10 minutes all out and then they’re done, no.

Brad Kerns: You’re sneaking in under the radar, I guess. It’s nice to know.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, you don’t have that stress response. And this is why interval training, again, people aren’t explaining the science either at all, or not even close to correctly, but it’s not a steady state heart rate thing so it doesn’t have the same cortisol upregulation and suppression of growth hormone that regular endurance training does. So I think for people who don’t want to do strength training and just want to be lean and not muscular, yeah [inaudible] intervals, you’re cool.

Brad Kerns: Okay. So you don’t go for an hour and 20 minute interval workout ever?

Dr. John Jaquish: No, you do a couple of two-minute bursts and then catch your breath in between.

Brad Kerns: Yeah, sure.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yes, that’s-

Brad Kerns: That’s right on.

Dr. John Jaquish: If all I wanted to do was just drop body fat and didn’t care about musculature in any way, that would be a way to go. Now, of course, there’s high injury risk there. Actually I take that back. I wouldn’t do that. I’d just do X3 because, the injury-

Brad Kerns: The injury-

Dr. John Jaquish: … risk is low.

Brad Kerns: Yeah, love it. Dr. John Jaquish, man, hit them hard.

Dr. John Jaquish: Hey. Yes.-

Brad Kerns: Fascinating insights. This guy is-

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, thank you so much.

Brad Kerns: You’re out there on the cutting edge. And I think we’re compelled to listen, even if it’s going against our rigid, fixed beliefs.

Dr. John Jaquish: My whole life I’ve been going against the grain-

Brad Kerns: Yeah, man, we need that.

Dr. John Jaquish: … because 13 years ago I developed the bone density medical device, the founder of the OsteoStrong clinics. And I was telling the whole pharmaceutical industry in bone density that they were wrong. And while nobody ever wrote me a letter and said, ‘Thank you for straightening this out.’ By the way, these people are brilliant. They’re the top minds in their field, and they’ve done incredible things with the biochemistry, the pharmaceuticals.

Even the ones that have a lot of side effects, they do the job. There’s applications for even some of the higher risk drugs. Somebody is in their like late nineties, can they take the one that has some cancer questions? Yeah probably, because time is probably going to get them before cancer does. Seriously. That’s exactly the logic when it comes to some of these prescriptions.

Like, you would never give teriparatide to a young person, but teriparatide to very elderly, very frail, -6 T-score person? Yeah, that sounds like a candidate for teriparatide, at least as far as what I’ve read, and what I’ve learned at some of the conferences that I’ve been at. So they have their place.

But I was so against the grain. I was probably the only guy to show up that was a speaker under 50. I was like in my thirties presenting this stuff and they just kind of looked at me like, ‘What the hell is this guy doing here? Talking about exercise? Oh, that doesn’t do anything.’ And well in a way they’re right because they determined that 4.2 multiples body weight is the minimum dosage to affect your hip joint, of force.

Brad Kerns: Wow.

Dr. John Jaquish: 4.2 multiples of your body weight. You’re not getting that. You’re not even getting that with weights.

Brad Kerns: Right. That’s a lot.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s impact or-

Brad Kerns: You’ve got to jump off the ground.

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, you’ve got to jump off like a table to get that. So actually you need to jump off something that’s higher than 15 and a half inches. I did the math.

Brad Kerns: Nice. All right.

Dr. John Jaquish: Now, you can say that to a kid and they’re like, ‘Oh, I’ll jump off that.’ But say that to somebody with osteoporosis, they will never do that. That would be irresponsible completely. So that’s where the OsteoStrong devices came from because it’s giving the benefit of high-impact without the risks of high impact. And it was so against the grain. In fact, my PhD advisor told me, ‘If you had developed this after finishing your PhD,’ because I developed it first and then I went and did my PhD, he said, ‘If you went, did your PhD and then tried to develop this, you would have talked yourself out of it. You would have never launched this product because it’s so different from the way the industry thinks.’

Now, I don’t know if that’s true because I know my father’s developments were totally unconventional. He designed and built the lunar rover.

Brad Kerns: Oh wow.

Dr. John Jaquish: Him and seven other guys. He was a NASA engineer and then he worked for a number of different engineering contractors that were developing really new cutting edge stuff. So he always had an approach of like, ‘Don’t…’ What he would say to me is, ‘Don’t think people are going down the right path. Look at the problem and think of anything else that might address that problem than the way people were going.’

Brad Kerns: Wow. Great [crosstalk].

Dr. John Jaquish: Because there might be a better answer there.

Brad Kerns: That’s right, yeah. Right on, man. Keep doing what you’re doing. Thanks everybody for watching, listening.

Dr. John Jaquish: Awesome. Thank you very much.

Brad Kerns: All right. Where to go?

Dr. John Jaquish: All the way up in the corner, just hit the corner.

Brad Kerns: Oh, this corner.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Just put the mouse over. There you go.

Brad Kerns: Oh, I’ve got to put that on mine.

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh it’s great.

Brad Kerns: Pretty slick. And then are we going to go save? And you want to email this to me or something?

Dr. John Jaquish: Where did you put it?

Brad Kerns: Desktop.

Dr. John Jaquish: Okay. I’ll email it to you.

Brad Kerns: Right on.

Dr. John Jaquish: Cool, man.

Brad Kerns: It was great stuff.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Brad Kerns: Really awesome.