Full Transcript #
Joey Thurman: What’s up, this Joey Thurman, here’s another episode of the Fad or
Future Podcast and in front of me is the Tony Stark of fitness. Author, Dr. John
Weightlifting is a Waste of Time
is the name of his new book.
I read that whole thing, he’s also the creator of the X3 Bar
bunch of other things he’s holding up. Who’s that good looking man there on the
Dr. John Jaquish: That’s me. Amazing right?
Joey Thurman: That is you dude.
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk] tell my friends, they would doubt my bad ass ness.
Joey Thurman: Well, for one, I just want to say I appreciate you coming on. I’ve
heard about you for a long time. Then your people connected with me, sent me an
and the book. So I truly appreciate that and thanks for
coming on, man.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.
Joey Thurman: So, let’s just get into it. You have a PhD, you’re a very smart
guy. What’s your PhD in?
Dr. John Jaquish: Biomedical engineering.
Joey Thurman: Okay, so you’re a little smarter than most individuals I would
imagine. Although I’ve met many PhDs that don’t have a lot of common sense. But
I think you got it.
Dr. John Jaquish: Oh yeah. That doesn’t … somebody’s, their credentials, they
can mean something, but it doesn’t mean everything.
Joey Thurman: Yeah, for sure.
Dr. John Jaquish: I met people who are scientists, who absolutely reject science
when it’s convenient for them.
Joey Thurman: It’s kind of like that confirmation bias.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right.
Joey Thurman: You choose what your study is, what box you want to put yourself
in, and then you’ve got your one study that you can keep referring back to. So
you can disregard anything else. So what is it exactly that you do? You’re an
inventor, you do all sorts of different things. You’ve got the
out, you’re an author. A little bit about your background here.
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, where I got all this started was my medical device,
Osteostrong. I developed a machine increases bone density, or can increase bone
density if used correctly with the right population faster than any drug that’s
ever been trialed. And there’s no side effects. We have 150 clinics in eight
different countries. And I developed that to treat my mother’s osteoporosis, and
reverse that completely. So, she’s in her 80s and has the bones of a 30 year
Joey Thurman: That’s pretty cool.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. And that forced me to see something. I was developing
that product and doing the clinical assessment of it at a hospital in London. I
was in London back and forth, and basically for a long time, University of East
London. And so, I was forced to really look at the kind of forces that were
going through bone and determined that the capacity in impact ready ranges of
motion, so like when you trip and fall, and you put your hands up to keep your
face from hitting the ground, there’s always one position that people take.
Little kids, elderly people. If they can react, they all react with the same
biomechanics. So I looked at those biomechanics, those biomechanics are capable
of absorbing or creating seven times the amount of force that we would normally
pick in weight training, because you pick whatever you can handle in the weaker
range. Because the weaker range is important, for blood flow, for stimulus, for
stretching through the whole movement, everything. For constant tension. So I
looked at the data I was collecting and so people, depending on the position,
they’re seven times stronger than they think they are. So when we’re in the
weaker position, we’re actually putting more stress on the joint than we are on
the muscle because it’s the end of the range of motion. And then when we’re in
the stronger range, there’s hardly any activity in the muscle at all because
that weight is actually weak compared to what the muscle can actually handle. So
I said it while we were doing the research serum, this proves weight lifting is
a terrible stimulus for muscle growth because we just have one weight. Whatever
you handle at the bottom of the bench press is the same weight at the top.
That’s idiotic if you know what kind of force capacities that we have. So we
need to go weight the changes as we move. Now a lot of people will say, “Weight
lifting …” because I had to do some soul searching here. I already had a great
business going on with Osteostrong, and Tony Robbins is a partner in that and
that’s a successful business, so why would I go and launch something else? And
ultimately, the answer came to, I have incredible data that will completely
change and improve and industry. Really just actually throws out the entire
industry in favor of something better, more simple, completely portable. You can
keep it in a drawer. So you no longer have to tell your wife to park outside
because you got your cross fit rack in her parking spot and your fake plastic
weights. So you can make your videos for Instagram. And make sure to throw the
weights on the ground so it makes a big noise.
Joey Thurman: The meat head toss is a complete necessity.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, I think that’s how you finish competitions now. It’s no
longer controlling it down, it’s the best meat head toss.
Joey Thurman: Throwing it on the ground. So let’s talk about this a little bit.
I like the how the premise of your book. You go in to how you came about
and Osteostrong, that’s really cool as far as
bone density because most people are lifting enough weight to create that
response. So it’s really interesting.
Dr. John Jaquish: The minimum dose response is 4.2 times your body weight.
Nobody will [inaudible] [crosstalk]
Joey Thurman: I’m sure your mother is not squatting four times her weight, but
when it’s in a biomechanical advantage, a machine, it makes a ton of sense. So,
you talk in your book, you talk about how you came about trying to develop this
and the whole premise behind strength curve and you’re not activating enough
muscle tissue. Can you get into why you believe that weight lifting isn’t as
efficient as possible for adding muscle tissue?
Dr. John Jaquish: Say that one more time?
Joey Thurman: So, from your research, weight lifting, why isn’t it as efficient
for adding muscle tissue? That’s a lot of the premise of your book, right?
Weight lifting isn’t [crosstalk]
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, it’s actually what I just said. It’s like you’re
handling the same weight, but you have dramatically, like seven fold different
capacities for producing or absorbing force from weak range to strong range. So
if you know there’s a variance of seven fold, why would you train with a static
weight, it makes absolutely no sense. And guarantees you have a maximum amount
of accumulative joint damage. I see people, they’ve got to get a stretch in
while they’re at the bottom of the bench press, and it’s just like so, do that
for 10 years, and you’re going to have trouble putting your shirt on because
it’s just going to damage it a little bit, and then a little bit more, and a
little bit more, and a little bit more. And then all of a sudden you can’t train
anymore because [inaudible] feels pain.
Joey Thurman: So, in your book you talk about this, inhibitory signals, that
people when they’re going through those ranges, and that with the
you take away those inhibitory signals, essentially that
you’re going to get more activation out of that. Can you discuss what that is in
layman’s terms for somebody that talking about … You use bench press as a
common theme going through this when you’re at the end range or beginning range
of the motion, but what are those inhibitory signals, and why is it important to
be aware of it?
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, your body has a way of shutting you down when you’re
hurting yourself. So a lot of times, when someone is lifting and they’re not
getting stronger, it’s because the body’s really shutting the muscle of because
you’re just creating damage. So instead of going to fatigue, it’s really just a
trauma response and you never get to muscular fatigue at all. So you never grow,
and this is why so many people go in the gym year after year, their joint pain
increases, but they never look any different. It’s funny, I wrote a book, Weigh
Lifting is a Waste of Time, obviously got a lot of attention. We sold 75,000
copies, but it made some people mad. They were emotionally attached to weight
lifting. And I’m like, you should emotionally be attached to results, not doing
whatever you’re doing because clearly that’s not working. Let’s take a look at
fitness. How many people work out … and there’s studies on this, but I just
asked the question, how many people … because most people won’t read the
details of a study or any statistics because they either don’t want to take the
time, or they’re just not smart enough. But unless you’re in Venice, at Gold’s
Gym, any other gym you walk into, the people don’t look a whole hell of a lot
different than the people who are at Pizza Hut next door. It’s not working. What
people are doing … I know so many people who, they see my approach, just
friends of mine, and they’ll go, “Yeah, I’m approaching it like I was going to
be in the Olympia or something like that.” So they’re doing whatever they think
the pros do, which is usually a lie, because the pros … It’s sort of like
Dwayne Johnson eats 12,000 calories a day. No he doesn’t. Does that to be like
so everyone’s like, “Wow!” So the article gets shared. He might as well have
said, 30,000 calories, or he has dinosaur farm, he eats dinosaurs. He’s like,
“Hey, look at me.” That’s what he said. And every famous person that read that
article’s like, “Ah, what a crock of shit this is.”
Joey Thurman: I remember that. I was training a client and he … I don’t know
if he sent it to me and he’s like, “Look at the … five pounds of cod,” or
whatever the hell the diet was. I’m like, “Dude, he’s not eating 12,000 calories
a day.” [crosstalk] Even back in the day, the Michael Phelps 10,000 calorie
thing, he’s not burning that off. The dude’s in a cold pool, which will help-
Dr. John Jaquish: Right, because like swimming is actually not really a caloric
exchange, it’s not significant. It’s so stupid, man. Anyway …
Joey Thurman: Why have people been doing it, and as a personal trainer and
stuff, obviously me having this conversation like, “Joey, why would you talk to
somebody that says weight lifting isn’t beneficial,” but I want to know what the
research says, what works, what gets faster results, and then you can
incorporate things. I think people sometimes they have their bible, and then
they read it and then that’s the only thing that matters regardless of any other
new research that comes out. You can still have your bible [crosstalk]-
Dr. John Jaquish: Right. And most people are not intelligent enough to be
anything other than a follower. If they other people around them succeed,
they’re like, “Oh, well I’ll check it out.” But, if you believe that something
is the way it is … everyone around you can fail, and you’ll still believe that
because it just … what you were taught was right. My point is, almost
everybody engaged in this activity, like who looks like … And I won’t say a
Mr. Olympia body builder, but let’s say a physique, a physique competition,
which for those people listening don’t know what a physique competition is, it’s
like underwear model fit. It’s like you’re strong, you look very strong, you’re
lean, but you could very well be an actual athlete.
Joey Thurman: Yeah, it’s like your muscle fitness versus Men’s Health. Muscle
and fitness is going be big, Jack guy, your Men’s Health, whatever is going to
Dr. John Jaquish: Men’s Health is actually like what a healthy person should
Joey Thurman: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: I mean a body builder really needs to look in the mirror. It’s
like hm … It doesn’t resonate anymore.
Joey Thurman: Right, right.
Dr. John Jaquish: So, anyway, my point, and Dr. Shawn Baker, I don’t know if
you’ve ever had him on the show?
Joey Thurman: Yeah, I had him on the show last year when I was out in LA.
Dr. John Jaquish: He said to me the best part about this book is the name of it
because you’re right. Almost nobody is fit. And he’s a world record strength
athlete. But just why defend an industry that is almost exclusively failure. How
many people look like a physique model? That’s why I brought the physique model.
How many people look like a physique model? Maybe one in 10,000. Let’s talk
about all people here. And which is why, when a guy has a full six pack, develop
abdominal muscles and a very low body fat and he’s walking down the beach, he
might as well be a space alien, everybody’s starting at him, like wow, how did
that guy do that. The reason it’s special is because what most people are doing,
doesn’t work, and it worked for that guy because he had maybe some genetic
advantages, maybe some chemical advantages. Maybe he has an eating disorder,
he’s just kind of muscular. I know a guy who could step on a physique stage any
day, any day through out the year, it doesn’t even lift. He was just born like
that. So yeah. There are some people, or maybe they just make dietary choices,
like they don’t like carbohydrates or something like that. So they’re just at
… for their lifetime they’ve been at a massive advantage.
Joey Thurman: So, a lot of these studies that you point to in the book, are
these based off of the variable resistance specifically, in and of itself, or
are some of them using bands, variable resistance, or people who are listening,
just a band with weights, or are they all specifically pointing directly to
using the variable resistance?
Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, using the
Joey Thurman: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: So there are some studies that are coming to … because
Joey Thurman: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: It just came out and it’s produced absolutely amazing results.
There are people who have lifted weights for 20 years, and they got more gains
in six months after switching to
than they did over the 20 years
of lifting weights. But, as far as data comes, the variable resistance has been
tested in different test lab environments, sometimes weight it added. Static
weights, so it’s a portion of static weight and a portion of accelerated weight,
and stronger ranges of motion. But it’s very light what they’re doing. So they
might be holding X at the bottom of a movement, X whatever weight it is, and
then 1.2X at the top. Whereas, we’re doing X at the bottom and 5X at the top.
And that’s because we want to do more than one repetition. So you can get
multiple repetitions, you can truly exhaust the ATP glycogen and creatine
phosphate out of the muscle, so more is required to maintain muscle endurance
for the next exercise session. And that combined with the hypoxia and the higher
loads, which gives you more muscle protein synthesis, and more testosterone, the
protein synthesis and the testosterone are really force dependent. So if you’re
not going heavy, you’re not growing like that. You’re not getting it. You got to
go heavy. Nobody does 20, you know with [inaudible], 20 rep sets and is going to
be a [inaudible] strength athlete.
Joey Thurman: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: [crosstalk] more reps.
Joey Thurman: Yeah, and that’s a big misconception too. People, if they’re doing
20, 25 reps, and they’re not pushing their tissue to complete muscle failure, it
doesn’t matter how many reps you did. So in your protocol though, this is really
interesting, you’re for the most part only prescribing one set per [inaudible]
per body part. There’s your advanced protocol, you have a couple ones where you
did like a pre-exhaustion type of thing in there. But, is one set truly going to
be enough to induce enough tissue growth? Because I mean when you look at other
studies they say … I think you and I had a conversation on Instagram once back
about [inaudible] one of the studies about 10 to 20 sets per body part, per
week, by way of machine or with resistance training. You’re doing one set.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right. Well, all the most powerful adaptive responses, like
suntan or callous, there’re other ones, but everybody knows what a callous is
and what a suntan is. So, they respond to the most powerful stimulus, which is
the greatest amount of energy going into the body in the shortest period of time
to cause the irritant. Exercise is an irritation. And how we respond to that
irritation is growth. And there’s two different types of growth. There’s
sarcoplasmic and microfibril. So, the reason people do multiple sets with weight
training is because the stimulus is totally weak. How many sets do you need to
do in the sun to get a suntan? Joey Thurman: Like a 20 minute … yeah, yeah,
what was that a [crosstalk] 20 minute set maybe to get a suntan? I don’t know.
Dr. John Jaquish: It doesn’t even make sense. You go out once and that’s it. So,
Joey Thurman: So, that is going to be completely enough, the one set of chest
biceps, whatever to create enough tissue growth relative to if you’re looking at
somebody that’s pushing themselves actually to a limit at maybe 10 to 20 sets
per body part, per week?
Dr. John Jaquish: Say that again?
Joey Thurman: So meaning for the
, you say, you only need to
do this one exercise once, right? So you’re doing chest once, biceps once, so on
and so forth. So, if you’re looking at somebody that’s actually pushing
themselves via resistance training, weight training, whatever terminology you
want to put to it, are those results going to be similar, or better, or do you
not have data on that specifically?
Dr. John Jaquish: I would have to take a number of … Well in the book, I take
a number of studies. And explain because of the mechanisms, we know that
somebody who’s doing 20 sets is going to get a lot of joint damage, and a little
stimulus. I mean if they’re training heavy, of course if they’re not … because
a lot of people just don’t train heavy and then they … There’s another reason
why they go to the gym year after year, and they look like nothing. They look
like they don’t even exercise. Like I said, 99.9% of the population. So, I would
say so there’s one study in 2008, the Anderson Study that shows triple the
strength gains with a variable resistance test group. And these were all college
athletes. University athletes, and compared to the control group. That’s why I
. I thought that was a very clearly written study.
There’s still a lot of clowns who try and look at X3
, they can’t
understand the study, so it’s just like I gave them something they just don’t
… they’re incapable of understanding. It’s funny. Fitness content comes in two
places mainly on the internet. Instagram and YouTube. Pictures and videos. You
know why? It’s because they can’t read. I think the typical fitness fan has got
a really low level of intelligence, otherwise they’d be able to read and
article. It’s just unreal how … And it was funny because a lot of fitness
manufacturers that I talked to before launching the product, because I wanted to
partner with them, they were like, “Oh, you can’t talk science. It’ll fail.” And
so all I did was pivot the audience to busy professionals. That’s really our
target market. Now we end up getting a lot of fitness people anyway. But they
had to see other people succeed with it first. I can just tell by the way it is,
just go to bodybuilding.com how do these these people, how are they alive? How
do they not just fall in a river?
Joey Thurman: It’s funny, anytime you … and you’ve seen my posts, I will often
quote a study and a reputable study on the stuff that I’m doing. And then I’ll
get a response based off of just the headline or something. Which I want to get
into the cardio thing, but I talk about the up regulation of fat. I do cardio
all the time, and I’m like, “Just look into it, there’s a lot more than I can
answer on an Instagram post.” [crosstalk], on a comment. So anybody listening,
find studies and actually read about them, or find people that can explain them
to you, would be a good way to go about it. So, how can people incorporate this
into their lives? What’s your protocol, and is there something where people can
do this and … I mean people … we’re habitual creatures, right? So we want to
have our coffee in the morning, or whatever, still go to the gym. Is there a way
that people could incorporate this while weight training? Or you want them just
specifically staying with the
for optimal results?
Dr. John Jaquish: I would say if you’re a professional athlete, you have to do
some drills or some skill word. Skill work is neurological. So it’s very
different than just building raw power. So I work with about 20 different NFL
players, and so like I tell them, because they’re all worried about some
conflict. They do get quite an education when they get into the league, but
every strength coach is really good in the NFL, but they don’t know all about
yet. I mean really the only entire pro team that is switched to
, is Miami Heat, which is why they endorsed the book. But the NFL
players specifically, I like looking at the NFL because these were like the
strongest people in the world. I know power lifters think there’s stronger. It’s
like, mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah, right. You’re making $2,000 with your sport,
but you could be in the NFL because you’re stronger, but no, no, no, you’d
rather have $2,000. Believable. So, anyways, these are the strongest guys in the
world, most gifted guys in the world and I tell them, “When you do skill work,
it’s got nothing to do with what we’re trying to assimilate.” It’s like a
different thing. It’s like you can get a haircut and you cut your finger nails
and it’s not … One’s not going to interfere with the other.
Joey Thurman: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right. So, it’s just that simple. [crosstalk] like actually
lift, I would say like a power lifter has to practice the skill.
Joey Thurman: Sure.
Dr. John Jaquish: Honestly, your bench press, because you’ll lose the ability if
you switch completely to
, the ability to just keep the bar
balanced. Because holding the bar that’s not connected to anything. Of course
there’s always some dip shit that bench presses with a Smith machine, which is
… Now I’ll make you a list what’s wrong with that. You see those guys in the
gym. And it’s like, did you put a Ferrari on [inaudible] on your-
Joey Thurman: The Kit car?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, right. Or just put a giant spoiler on your car which
goes like 90. So those are the guys.
Joey Thurman: The [inaudible], are they using the
for their strength work now?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.
Joey Thurman: So they’re [crosstalk]
Dr. John Jaquish: Don’t touch the drills. They do exactly the same drills. And
for leg, for you guys, not even for the sake of science, just for your team, do
the drills and do
and now you’ve isolated X3
variable. It’s isolated, so if you see stronger tendons, stronger ligaments, way
more power and speed, then you know what did it. Don’t change the skill work at
all, because it’s different. It’s neurological.
Joey Thurman: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: And when the power lifter does the one rep, it’s technique.
It’s like a golfer has to swing a golf club all the time to keep that pattern
right. A pitcher, the same thing. A power lifter, the same thing. It’s got
nothing to do with the raw power that you’re going to get out of
So I tell these guys, practice the movement but don’t practice the movement
loaded for your work out. Build the power and explosiveness with X3
and then work on the movement. Another thing, people do sumo squats. You’ve seen
[inaudible]. So a sumo squat is also like grabbing the bar really wide on the
bench press. It’s like a method of cheating that just isn’t against the rules.
So you have a shorter distance to go. Nobody exercises like that. I mean clowns
exercise like that. But that’s a way to get away with holding more weight in a
competition. So you win the title. But that’s just not the way you train.
Because you’re actually activating far less muscle when you do it like that.
Like if I’m out here, and this is how I’m bench pressing, if I’m taking a wide
grip and bench pressing, are my pecs getting to the shortest position, or the
most powerful? Not even close.
Joey Thurman: Sure.
Dr. John Jaquish: In fact they go from stretched to slightly less stretched.
It’s like the worst. It’s just a leverage thing.
Joey Thurman: Yeah, you’re just giving yourself a mechanical advantage. So with
the teams that are adopting this, so are they just completely putting away their
weight training completely and they’re just doing the skill work and then
they’re using the
Dr. John Jaquish: I tell them to. That’s exactly how it works. With some of the
NFL guys, because I’m working with them directly, Andy as well, he’s one of the
fastest receivers in the NFL, great example. His strength coach looked at it and
it’s like, “Man, I’m just afraid we’ll lose a little bit of power if we drop
weights and go with this.” So he wants Andy to do both. Now, Andy’s become
faster, so that’s good. And I know he’s seeing success, but the success is
diminished if you throw other stimuli in there. Because that interferes with
recovery and everything.
Joey Thurman: Right. And it makes sense if you’re using this, it’s going to be
much less stress on the joints as you said because there’s going to be less
overall reps and compounding too, and then if you’re putting yourself in that
safer position, at all times, especially for a basketball player who needs to be
real elastic. That really makes a lot of sense. So, let’s talk about the other
part of your book. Cardio being a Waste of Time. I can’t have you on here
without you talking about that because this is one of the biggest things that I
get people asking me about. And it’s really interesting. So why put that in the
title of your book?
Dr. John Jaquish: Because that’s really there to catch the interest of women.
Because they’re under the impression, you know they just do hours and hours of
fasted cardio, or their calorie-deficit cardio, that they’re going to look like
Gal Gadot, or I think she pronounces it Gadot. The girl from [crosstalk]-
Joey Thurman: Wonder Woman.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, they think they’re going to look like Wonder Woman. I
can promise you, Gal does not do a lot of cardio. I mean she’s strong. So,
cardio increases cortisol for long periods of time. Cortisol goes up when you do
all kinds of stuff. Cortisol goes up when you get out of bed. So that’s not an
excuse for staying in bed all day long. But it goes up and then goes right back
down. And when you train, even weight training, you get a slight bit of a damage
response and though you … I kind of go in and you shouldn’t necessarily, and
you don’t with
, because there’s really no muscle damage with
. The more damage you have, the less you grow. It’s sort of the
opposite of what we talked about. But we can get into that later. So, there’s 40
years of research that shows the up regulation of cortisol in the form of
sustained cardio will diminish muscle mass, and encourage the extra storage of
fat. So you stay fatter longer. And you lose your muscle. And when you look at a
sprinter, and then you look at a marathon runner, do they have the same body?
Joey Thurman: Yeah, I mean completely different body types.
Dr. John Jaquish: You’re right. The marathon runners' skinny-fat.
Joey Thurman: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: They’ve lost so much muscle, that’s why they look small. It’s
because the muscles completely diminished. Now if you think about the logic of
what the body’s doing, the body realizes that in the environment it’s put in, it
has to go great distances on small amounts of energy. So how does it accomplish
that? It accomplishes that by shrinking the size of the engine, by increasing
the size of the storage. So you store more fat, you lose your muscle mass. It
leaches minerals from the bones, so you lose bone density. I mean which is an
incredible health problem. So, I mean that’s three massive reasons why I would
not recommend a cardiovascular-based approach to getting lean.
Joey Thurman: And how much … is there a certain amount of time, or certain
level that your heart rate before you want to cut off that cardio if you’re
going to do it? Because I know they say extended bouts of cardio, but is it an
hour, an hour and half?
Dr. John Jaquish: 30.
Joey Thurman: How many?
Dr. John Jaquish: 30.
Joey Thurman: 30 minutes?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Somebody just does 20 minutes of cardio to warm up or
wake up, or whatever. That’s fine.
Joey Thurman: Okay.
Dr. John Jaquish: But 30 minutes of sustained cardio, in like target heart rate.
I wouldn’t do that.
Joey Thurman: Okay. Good. So you touched on muscle damage and we have it wrong.
Why do we have it wrong?
Dr. John Jaquish: So a couple great studies, and I’ve got some great graphics in
there that show what happens is when your muscle damage, your muscle protein
synthesis attenuates the damage, and you don’t grow. It just addresses the
damage. When you take the muscle to fatigue without damaging it, which is
does, then you get the maximum out of muscle protein
synthesis. So, that’s why people are seeing these changes. Most people get more
damage and they’re hardly growing. Even if they the proper amount of protein or
whatever. Joey Thurman: So when people start using this, they’re seeing results
in … what’s the general amount of time when they start noticing, I mean
feeling and noticing aesthetic differences?
Dr. John Jaquish: Lean people will see it in a week.
Joey Thurman: Really?
Dr. John Jaquish: Heavier people will see it … if they use it right-
Joey Thurman: Sure.
Dr. John Jaquish: I mean there’s people who make up their own exercises or don’t
go to fatigue. They’re completely rested by the time they’re done with their
set. There’s always guys like that though.
Joey Thurman: And if you do this … like the full body protocol, that’s a
little rough, if you do it to complete fatigue, and I don’t think most people
really know what that exactly feels like, but to the point … And you guys can
, but to the point where you’re going through that range,
and then you do the shorter range of motion where you can’t, like almost like
micro reps if you will, they’re really tiny until you’re completely fried. It is
exhausting and your heart rate does get elevated. And it’s much tougher than I
thought it was going to be the first time I picked that thing up honestly.
Dr. John Jaquish: Shawn Baker says, he’s like, “I’m a world record strength
athlete,” he says, “This is the hardest workout I’ve ever done in my life.” But
I find that people, I mean this experience has made me disappointed with the
general human population as far as intelligence goes. However, the people who
actually get the product, who are probably the more intelligent ones because
they bothered to read the science, they’re not afraid of effort. What they’re
afraid of is time. They want to grow faster. They don’t want to wait 20 years to
get fit. They also just don’t have the time to put into workouts. When you’re in
your 20s, and you have a job where you don’t have any work you take home, you
know? Sort of entry level job. You have tons of time, nothings really pulling
you in any direction. So you workout and you hang out at a bar, or you drink
with friends. Now, but we’re not allowed to go to bars for no good reason, but
the whole lifestyle changes when you get a real job and somebody actually needs
your attention. Like 24.7 because you’re doing some important shit. And then all
of a sudden you get married, and I won’t go into that. But that doesn’t help
your free time. And then you have kids, and then it’s just like, wow. Did I even
use the rest room today? I can’t even remember. So yeah, it’s very time
efficient, but people are not afraid of working hard. And so when I tell them,
“You have to absolutely shut down the muscle,” oh they are afraid of injury
though. Which is why a lot of lifting … basically somebody lifts hard, and
imagines that injuries are for sissies, and that’s not them. And then they get
injured and then they basically never train heavy again. And they never grow
again. But with
, you’re using a much higher weight than you’d
ever be able to use in the gym. I don’t care what you’re doing. Much higher.
Maybe three, four, five times higher. Then, you’re using more repetitions
because of the variable resistance, and you’re able to actually apply
diminishing range so that it simulates a far greater level of hypoxia and then
suppresses myostatin, which is the muscle growth limiter in the body. So you get
to grow even more than normal.
Joey Thurman: Interesting. You definitely feel it when you’re going through
those. I mean I think [crosstalk]
Dr. John Jaquish: I have to sit on the floor. And I’m gasping for air.
Joey Thurman: The dead lifts. That’s probably the one that’s … I mean it’s
exhausting when you’re doing it with weights, but when you’re doing it with that
diminishing range of motion too, that one … hamstrings, glutes, I mean abs as
well are really frying on that if you’re doing it correctly. And that’s one
thing, you say that people don’t necessarily need to do specific abdominal
training when they’re using this …
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, the abdominals grow much faster and better when they get
afferent activation as opposed to direct activation. That means activation in
form of a reflex. Very strange. Parts of the calf … I think it’s just the
gastroc, only responds to balancing. You won’t get it to grow with direct work.
Which is like sprinters, they have amazing calves, right? So you got to balance.
Or, if you use the
, you got to really balance yourself with your
calves, which is why the gastroc growth is just tremendous because you’re
basically fighting falling over because you’re holding yourself plus like 200
other pounds. And you’re putting all that force to your calves. They respond
like that. So abs are much as … and obliques, and quadratus muscles.
Everything that you see in your core, much better response by balancing you.
Because if you think when do humans really crunch? Maybe when they get out of
bed. That’s really about it. If you and I have to like fight a saber-tooth
tiger, I mean let’s imagine we went back in history, would we be using our abs
yeah, to keep us stable. To keep us moving forward or moving back. But they’re
stabilizers. It’s not like, let me get on the ground and do a crunch so I can
kill this thing. You know what I’m saying?
Joey Thurman: Unless you got knocked on your back and you do some sort of crazy
crunch to poke out it’s eye or something.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right. And it’s like, Oh my God a crunch, and then just
dissolves. Right, right. So you got to really look at how we use the muscle in
our activities of daily living. And it’s an indirect actor, always. And so I
focus on the stabilization function and of course you can just look at the
customers and you see incredible abs everywhere. And they’re doing zero direct
Joey Thurman: Makes sense. So what would you recommend for individuals who want
to get in shape. I mean you’re kind of overall view on fitness here. You get in
to diet and all sorts of things in your book as well. So, what would your
general recommendations be for someone that wants to get in shape, is limited on
time. And I’m sure
is part of that, but what can people do that
you see them not doing to be healthier?
Dr. John Jaquish: I don’t want to piss off my customers here. Inventing stupid
shit to do it with. Don’t come up with your way to use it. Follow the program. I
quote The Mandalorian, I give them the link to the program, and I’m like, “This
is the way.” End of story. I don’t say, “End of story,” just, “This is the way.
Do it this way.” And it’s because a lot them don’t understand the growth
principles like hypoxia for example. I could give a two hour lecture about
hypoxia, and people would be like, “Oh my God, that’s been left to the side for
50 years.” nObody focuses on that. And then hyperplasia, we now know we can
trigger hyperplasia. But explaining it, it took me 20 pages with scientific
references. And I actually feel bad for a lot of people who read the book and
they’re like, they get to that chapter and thyre like, “What the fuck?” And like
… I think I need to take a class before reading. Especially that section of
the book. I feel bad. I had to do it that way though because … I was talking
to a friend of mine this morning, and she’s asking some things that she had read
in Woman’s Wear Daily, or something that covers fitness, but is not academic
literature. The furthest thing from it. Because people read stuff and they
believe it. It’s published, right? So, over simplification is another word for
wrong. And to get to true simplification is very difficult with complex
subjects. So I couldn’t do it with the hyperplasia section and show how to do it
and how to use carbohydrates to inflate the cell, get as much blood retention,
water retention in the cell. And as much nutrients in the cell, and then
stretching that muscle. And Professor Jose Antonio, this was his thesis. I’m
sure you know who that is. Professor at florida State. And he did it with birds,
where they would stretch the muscle, now we’re not birds and we do not have the
biochemistry of birds, but you can basically torture a bird into a two day long
stretch that’ll increase the volume of muscle by 150%. So you more than double
the size of the pectoral muscle of the bird in two days. Just by stretching
them. And they’re exhausted, because they’re always moving their wings. So the
idea that maybe humans could do that, now, I’ve actually thought about doing a
five hour stretched stimulus after a workout. I’ve done it for a minute. Or two
minutes. I think I did it once for 10, and it just felt like I was going to die.
It’s like an extreme stretch. As much as you can get out of it.
Joey Thurman: You stretch the tissue and hold as long as you can basically?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, just get in a doorway and as much as you can stretch.
But as soon as I started using that protocol, my girlfriend at the time, was
looking at me like, “What the hell did you do to your chest? It’s huge.” And
this is a couple days later. So, doctor, tell me I was right?
Joey Thurman: [inaudible]
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. I mean it’s not the same, and it’s a great animal model,
now you would never get past the human ethics board to collect a bunch of people
and they were going to have to be in a painful stretched position for 48 hours.
Joey Thurman: Right.
Dr. John Jaquish: They would never accept that. I mean I bet you in Russia they
Joey Thurman: I think in Russia they pretty much get away with anything.
Dr. John Jaquish: Honestly in the United Kingdom they’re a lot cooler. That’s
why I went to London to do my research. Go to American hospital and they’re
like, “Well, we can’t allow that.”
Joey Thurman: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: Can you actually think about it? Can I discuss it with your
board? And they’re like, “No, that’s just not going to pass.” “Thanks guys.”
Joey Thurman: That’s funny. Lets talk a little bit about nutrition. What is your
go to nutrition protocol for yourself and people if you were to choose a
specific pattern. I mean we all want to be in a box, right?
Dr. John Jaquish: Right.
Joey Thurman: What box would you put people in?
Dr. John Jaquish: You mean like an abbreviated recommendation of what they
Joey Thurman: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: I would tell them two things, eliminate low quality protein.
Like whey. 18% of it is used by the body. The rest are all those bubbles in your
urine. It’s just nitrogen. It just goes right through you. Because there’s a
very low level of the amino acids you need and a lot of amino acids you don’t.
But it’s cheap to produce, and it literally is a diary industry waste product.
It was taken out of the trash at first. Like [Dandy Shane] was literally buying
dairy farms trash. I need all that whey that you’re going to go throw … push
down the drain or have toxic disposal take it away, because I want that. And so
he literally took garbage and turned it into a high-end supplement. That’s why
we have it. Not for any good reason. So 18% usable. So get rid of the garbage.
And pea protein is 9%. So why even bother with it? Now, vegans, I got an answer
for them, which is bacterial fermentation. Eating the bi product of dead
bacteria is not hurting anything. I’ve had the arguments, they’re like, “Well,
what about the lives of the bacteria?” And I’m like, “Oh my God.” Really?
They’re not even a live. It’s like, “Yeah, they’re alive, but not really.” Not
as we define it anyway. And you know, you’ve had discussions with vegans before.
I mean it’s like talking to snake handlers in the Appalachian Mountains. So, I
tell people, veganism is going to go down in history like anorexia and bulimia.
It’s just an eating disorder. I mean anorexics and bulimics think they’re doing
something for their health also. So just because you think you’re dong something
else, it doesn’t mean you’re right. And also, fun fact, you can bring this up at
cocktail parties, vegetable farming kills 7.3 billion animals per year in the
Joey Thurman: Really?
Dr. John Jaquish: Poisoning birds. Poisoning gofers, ground squirrels, foxes,
deer. Most of the deer get shot. But I went to high school in Napa Valley and my
parents moved to Napa Valley and we had views of vineyards. And we could hear
every morning, the guys who were tending to the vineyards, they got there, pop,
10 deer. Just load them on a meat wagon. Throw them in a pile of rock. Wouldn’t
even eat the meat.
Joey Thurman: Wow.
Dr. John Jaquish: But I mean, hey if you want to grow vegetables, that’s what
you got to do. That’s just a fact. And any expanding species, is going to take
resources from another species. That’s just the eco-system. And so if we keep
getting more people, we’re going to take up more space to grow more vegetables.
Or we’re going to take up more space to grow more cattle. Either way, animals
Joey Thurman: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: But anyway, so my go-to advice, get the crap quality protein
out. Get high quality protein and only focus on that. Like all I count is my
grams of protein a day. I don’t count calories. I know I’m at a defect. And I
only eat one meal a day. So I have a calorie defect, and I’m getting a fasted
benefit, and I’m getting a protein surplus. So in a protein surplus and a
calorie defect, I’ve got four studies that are listed in the book, that show
that you can gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time. So that makes
people’s results much faster. And so like, I mean unfortunately I’ve got to
pitch my own product here, but the supplement I came up with for protein, it’s a
very different essential amino-acid complex. It’s called
It was taken from a cancer treatment that was designed to stop muscle wasting.
So it has [inaudible] in it. And it was adjusted slightly to make it more
anabolic and it’s made out of bacterial fermentation, unlike others which are
just like yeah, the make-up is there, but it doesn’t work. Like we’ve had
essential amino-acids for 50 years, and nobody’s ever said they really did
anything. They do something on paper, but when people actually take them,
they’re like, “I got nothing out of it. " And it’s because they’re made
incorrectly. So yes, on paper, if they’re absorbed by the body, it’ll do
miraculous things, but most of the products out there are not the usable
essential amino acids because they were just made incorrectly.
Joey Thurman: That’s why you need that fermentation process?
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Yeah, the fermentation process is so important.
Joey Thurman: What was the name of your product again?
Dr. John Jaquish:
Joey Thurman: How do you spell that?
Dr. John Jaquish: F-O-R-T-A-G-E-N.
Joey Thurman: Okay, we’ll put that in the show notes too so people-
Dr. John Jaquish: Also I have a landing page that we’ll talk about at the end of
the show, where everything is there. Superior nutrition, superior exercise, bone
density. All the stuff I’ve been doing.
Joey Thurman: Perfect. My friend, one last question.
, fad or
Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, it’s the future. If I can get professional athletes to
throw their weights in the trash, and use this only, and say they’re more
successful, and I don’t pay any of these guys by the way.
Joey Thurman: No.
Dr. John Jaquish: Never paid an athlete. Honestly, I can’t afford them. I mean
these guys, their brands are worth ridiculous amounts of money. They just let me
use their pictures because they got great results. They believe in the product.
And the only thing I give them, is I give them my phone number. They can call me
at any time and ask any question.
Joey Thurman: Yeah.
Dr. John Jaquish: I haven’t come across anybody annoying yet. Because I was
like, sure somebody will call me and be like, “How do I do laundry?” There’ll be
some character out there that’ll test that. But they’ve been great. And there’s
also a lot of professional athletes and maybe one kind of the last physique
actor we have on earth that are
users. But you know I’m paying so
I can’t really talk about it.
Joey Thurman: Right. [crosstalk]
Dr. John Jaquish: Even a guy from New England. [inaudible] football. Who even
may put the actual
in his ads for his own product.
Joey Thurman: That’d be big for you.
Dr. John Jaquish: But no one knows who I’m talking about.
Joey Thurman: No, nobody. At all. All right my friend, where can people find you
and more about the
Dr. John Jaquish: Okay. So the landing page, my Instagram, YouTube, everything’s
there. All it is, is links to go to different places depending on what you’re
looking for. It’s doctorj.com D-O-C-T-O-R, the letter J .COM
Joey Thurman: All right. Perfect. Well, I appreciate you coming on my friend.
Weight Lifting is a Waste of Time. You guys decide, fad or future? It’s Joey
Thurman, here’s another episode of the Fad or Future Podcast. Remember don’t be
a faddy. F-A-D-D-Y. Be a part of the future. Cheers.