EAT CARNIVORE - what to eat to grow muscle fast with Dr. Dr. John Jaquish
In this episode Nick and Ben are talking with Dr. Dr. John Jaquish who is a scientist, founder and inventor of two amazing biomedical devices, OsteoStrong and the X3 Bar.
In this episode they discuss:
- What John eats to get incredibly big
- The history of carbohydrates
- Cardio ‘v’ strength training
- Why you should follow the X3 programme
Nick: Hey, it’s Nick and welcome to the Upgraded Executive podcast. We are bringing you insights from experts from around the world so you can improve your own personal and professional performance. This episode is the second one that we have recorded with Dr. Dr. John Jaquish, and if you liked episode 11, then you’re going to love episode 12.
Nick: Dr. Jaquish is a founder, scientist, and inventor of two amazing biomedical devices called OsteoStrong and the x3 bar. This episode is called Eat Carnivore, and some of the things you will hear John talk about will shock you as he dispels many of the misconceptions around eating red meat, and why he hasn’t eaten vegetables in over two years. We also speak about strength training versus cardio, and his new product Fortagen which enables you to eat less protein and still put on muscle fast.
Nick: John really doesn’t pull any punches, and I love his direct message. If you haven’t checked out episode 11, then do go back and listen or watch it. If you are enjoying the videos and podcasts, we would really appreciate it if you could subscribe to our podcast, and like and subscribe to the YouTube videos.
Nick: Finally, if you would like to get access to our content one week before it’s officially released, then please leave your details at UpgradedExecutive dot com /subscribe and we will send you a special link so you can access the videos one week ahead of when they’re officially released.
Nick: Let’s jump straight into the episode with Dr. Dr. John Jaquish.
Nick: John, you mentioned [inaudible 00:02:02] the nutritional program. Can you just talk us through how that applies to x3 and what the essence is of the program?
Dr. John Jaquish: So I think I’m probably the scientist that should be listened to on nutrition above just about anybody else. And the reason why is because I came at it with no bias. Most nutrition researchers, they might be funded by Nabisco. Now, Nabisco loves vegans because vegans don’t actually get their calories from vegetables because you can’t eat enough whole vegetables to get enough calories to keep from dying, so you have to have packaged foods, and Nabisco sells those. Right? So they really are pushing hard on saying meat’s bad for you or whatever. That’s not true.
Dr. John Jaquish: High levels of LDL cholesterol, bad cholesterol, is now associated with longer life. The opposite of what we were told from the 1950s on. Yeah. It’s amazing once the Staten funding went away, the opposite was found with what we see with LDLs.
Dr. John Jaquish: So when I approached nutrition, I thought okay. I’ve created the absolute greatest strength training device the world has ever seen, but the problem is, I see a lot of people that just have awful nutrition. And they think they have great nutrition. The guys, I hear all the time, “I have a balanced diet.” No, you don’t. You don’t even know what that means. Also, and I’ll admit, there’s so much conflicting research. Okay. What does that even mean? I would say 99 out of 100 nutrition books are just good for the trash because there’s so much garbage data, poor studies, conflict of interest type stuff, and I’m seeing all this, and I’m reading the research, really not any books, and I’m not following really any personalities.
Dr. John Jaquish: Now, I was friends with David Asprey right when I launched, I still am, right when I launched x3, and so I reviewed a lot of literature with him, but I thought, okay, if being a vegan is going to get people the best results with x3, then great. Vegetables it is. So when going through this process, I determined very quickly that that’s not the way to go. And I also realized that the two greatest drivers of long life are being strong and being [inaudible 00:05:19].
Dr. John Jaquish: So I realized I wasn’t just researching how people could get the best experience out of their x3, I was researching how to live a longer and healthier life, and also being muscular and looking fantastic. So that sounds great for everybody. Everyone says well, I want to customize my program to my goals, and I’m like shut up, everyone has the same… What? Do you want to be fatter? What custom do you need? Stupidest things I read. So what ended up happening is, I’m putting all of this stuff together, and it became totally obvious to me when I realized how much protein is needed to grow musculature I went wow.
Dr. John Jaquish: First of all, weight lifting really is not that great of [inaudible 00:06:19]. Honestly, I knew that. But I always had seen people at gyms, before inventing the x3, years and years of hard lifting. These guys were not slacking off. They were not being weak bodied. And they would never change. Year after year. They looked identical. Just maybe their hair got a little more gray. And I just, wow. I don’t know what to say to them. It sucks. No, we need 2.2 grams for every kilogram or gram per pound of body weight in protein, I was like, wow, if that’s the amount of protein we need, there is not room in our intestines for really anything else.
Dr. John Jaquish: Now, protein comes with fats, so that’s clearly important, but and then I started reading about inflammation and oxalates, because you have to have your inflammation low if you’re going to be triggering muscle growth and proper cell function, and all I saw was the less vegetables you had, the less inflammation you had, the better you do. So when I first launched the program, I just recommended ketogenic nutrition and eating vegetables just because that seemed like a very neutral position, but I didn’t really want to be a controversial nutrition guy, but the longer I stuck with animal based nutrition, the results were just spectacular. So I’ll eat two pounds of meat a day, in one meal, and that’s it. That put 45 pounds of muscle on me.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right. Right. I don’t eat anything else because nothing else is food. The rest of it is just crap.
Nick: Are you able to get everything you need from the meat, John.
Dr. John Jaquish: So, if you were to eat a diet of whole foods, I’m going to ask you guys this question. You’re both going to have to answer. You eat a diet of whole foods. No supplements, no powders. Just fruits, vegetables, fish, meat, whatever. How many calories in a given day would you need to consume to get to the recommended daily allowances as scribed by the American Medical Association? Just take a guess. How many calories?
Ben: Two and a half thousand?
Nick: Probably four thousand.
Dr. John Jaquish: 27,000. More than an elephant eats. So basically no one ever ate that way. So the recommendations of all the vitamins you need are clearly incorrect. And nor should they be paid attention to. Now, there’s vitamin deficiencies. If you eat carbohydrates, and you don’t have vitamin C, you can have scurvy. But, if you don’t eat carbohydrates, you have no need for vitamin C.
Ben: That’s interesting.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the micronutrients exist… So, here’s another thing. People say, “Well, what about your antioxidants? You don’t get any antioxidants?” And I tell them, you only need antioxidants if you’re oxidizing. I’m not. So what would I need those for? So can you get everything from meat? Yeah, you can get everything you need to be lean and strong and healthy? But, so you need omega-3 oils to make up for the oxalates that are in celery and in lettuce. So a lot of these things are… It’s a game of trying to cancel all these other things out like oh, I’m getting an inflammatory here, so I need some antioxidants here, and I need omega-3s, but not omega-5s, and there’s a very complicated formula for a, quote, balanced diet, or you could just avoid all that crap because it doesn’t do anything for you, and just have animal nutrition.
Dr. John Jaquish: Also, I’ve recently filmed a false sense of fitness. I have a show that I do every once in a while on YouTube. I recently filmed a false sense of fitness on carbohydrates and the history of carbohydrates. So a lot of scientists will point out that they really don’t like the concept of studying paleo or how cave people used to eat, prehistoric man, early homo sapien because they weren’t optimizing their health. We’re trying to optimize. Yes, however, we must consider the fact that carbohydrates only exist towards the end of the summer.
Dr. John Jaquish: If we lived in an indigenous population, and the three of us were in a tribe of early man living somewhere in the middle of England, what carbohydrates would we have right at our feet? What’s an indigenous fruit or vegetable that’s right there? Nothing. Right? Maybe a couple leaves or something, and those would only show up at the end of summer, and then this window when carbohydrates are available is definitely different if you live in a jungle versus living in England or something like that, but the point is, the majority of the year, they don’t have access to blooming fruits and vegetables. No one ever did.
Dr. John Jaquish: So when a physician says, children need carbohydrates to grow healthy and strong, garbage. That’s stupid. That never happened, and our genetics survived with very poor conditions. They had no housing, they had no medicine, they had no clothes, and we thrived by not eating carbohydrates the majority of the year. So we don’t need it. Now also, animal models and looking at animal nutrition is really not a good way to go, because they have different digestive systems. However, I will point out something interesting.
Dr. John Jaquish: When it comes to bears, specifically grizzly bears, grizzly bears eat meat when they come out of hibernation, and they eat nothing but meat until the end of the summer, then they gorge themselves on honey and berries. And they give themselves type two diabetes at the end of the summer, beginning of fall, in preparation for the winter. So think about where, and this is where I’m very dismissive of the scientists that say oh, it doesn’t really matter when we traditionally ate things. Yeah, maybe it does because a grizzly bear is using the carbohydrates to get as fat as possible, and only using it at that point, which is when it’s available in nature. And then getting as fat as possible, and using that as a survival mechanism.
Dr. John Jaquish: So my general view towards carbohydrates is they are nature’s way of helping you get as fat as possible. So if you need to be fat, let’s say to protect yourself from a brutal winter, or maybe you’re going to go through months of fasting because you don’t have anything to eat. Well, you know, if you have a lot of adipose tissue, you can go months without food, so okay. Then that’s a great purpose for carbohydrates. But really, they’re just there to get you fat. Brain doesn’t need them. Yes, the brain needs glucose, but gluconeogeneses can take care of that, and does, and always has. Totally fine.
Nick: John, what’s your view on the [inaudible 00:15:05] of meat. So I’ve been living very low carb for a while, so I don’t eat grains, don’t eat dairy, I guess I probably eat quite a lot of green cooked veg, so I try and avoid the oxalates as much as possible. I’m also lact-insensitive-
Dr. John Jaquish: We all are.
Nick: With my meat, I try and have it, the grass fed, grass finished by verified farm. Is there a difference in your view between grass fed, grass fed grass finished, and then just sort of normal low quality standard steer?
Dr. John Jaquish: So, I’m going to shock you here. The quality, now taste is a different story, but as far as quality nutrition, yes, there’s more nutrition with a grass fed animal that didn’t have any hormones or antibiotics, but, you really, what would be called low quality, unless, I know the United Kingdom’s standards are pretty similar to the United States, we really don’t… We’re not really missing out if you have a corn finished animal. They can still eat grains. Whether it’s wheat grain or grass or corn, they get a little fattier, which makes them taste a little bit better, but yeah, if you have two extra bites of steak, you just got the nutrition that you would’ve had with the grass fed. So it’s not that big of a deal, now, the whole antibiotics thing, yeah. It’s there. But keep in mind, if we have kids, and they get sick, and they’re going to die if they don’t have antibiotics, no one says oh no, we’ll just let my kid die because I don’t want to have antibiotics.
Dr. John Jaquish: So in a way, all right, there’s infectious stuff out there, and then there’s also animals that don’t have the antibiotics, so. And, by the way, the antibiotics are given to the animal when it’s very young. So it doesn’t die of some type of infection, and then all that stuff is cycled out of their system a long time, months and months, before the animal is processed into food. So I don’t know. I’m not too worried about it. Now, I am friends with a Michelin star chef who’s from Iceland, and he used to do the buying for McDonald’s in Spain, and what he told me was he would always, even every day, feed his family with McDonald’s meat. Because it is so high quality. In fact, if somebody gets sick or believes they got sick from a McDonald’s burger, McDonald’s can track it back to the health record of the cow.
Dr. John Jaquish: You can go to the finest steakhouse in central London, and you can’t get that. So, and I know, I say McDonald’s and some angry mother’s head’s going to explode when she hears that, but it’s fine. The french fries are still not food. They’re garbage. Throw them away. Coca Cola. I wouldn’t let my enemy drink Coca Cola. But yeah. The meat’s great. So at times, when I’m traveling, I’ll get… Do you have double quarter pounders?
Nick: We do, yeah. We do.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. So it’s like a half pound of meat. Some countries don’t have that. I was in Greece recently, and I just had to get quarter pounders. So I’ll get four double quarter pounders and just eat the meat with a fork and knife and throw the bun away. That’s not food either. So it’s… It tastes great. It might not be a porterhouse at a good steak restaurant, but.
Nick: It does the job from a nutrition point of view.
Dr. John Jaquish: That’s right.
Nick: John, one of the things I was really excited to talk to you about was I’m a massive fan of the x3 bar because I spent 20 years doing a desk job with a commute each day which amounted to one and a half hours each way, so three hours every day, so for me fitting in exercise became incredibly difficult. And up until I was maybe around about 22 or 23, I was really active, I was really fit. I was playing rugby, I was doing judo, and then work happened, and then family happened, and I got fat and lazy and basically couldn’t fit in exercise. And I see lots of people that are really big on cardio. Like go for a run or go for a hundred mile bike ride or whatever it may be, but for me, it feels like, when I do x3, I’m as out of breath as if I’d done a 5K run. I can really feel as though, particularly exercises like the squat or the overhead press, I can really feel my breathing rate coming up, so what’s your view on doing cardio versus strength training?
Dr. John Jaquish: So, I’m actually looking for a reference here, but there’s really no such thing as cardio. Cardio is just really lousy strength training that doesn’t really give you a strength benefit. So if you look at what we get from strength training, the heart is being stressed, and it does adapt. Our lungs are being stressed, and they do adapt. Now, measuring success by how far somebody can run or ride a bike is not particularly fair to the strength athlete, because for example, my quadriceps, they’re that big around. They’re huge. Because of x3. When I run up a flight of stairs, that’s a lot of blood that gets pumped to a pair of huge muscles. So the myth that strength athletes have poor cardiovascular function is not correct. They have great cardiovascular function. They just have a bigger engine that they’re pumping blood to. It’s like saying a Formula One car is a piece of garbage because it burns too much fuel, like my Prius is better. Not really, they’re very different purposed vehicles. So what’s going on is that, and I wish I could find the reference, maybe you can put it in the show now-
Nick: Of course, yeah, of course we will.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, there’s more than a hundred studies that have looked at the cardiovascular health, which is not how far you can run. Cardiovascular health of strength athletes versus endurance athletes, and the real difference was, the strength athletes had more muscle, and they had the same cardiovascular health. So which is better? Like I said, there’s no such thing as cardio. There’s just awful strength training that doesn’t really work.
Nick: Love that.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yep. So I don’t do any cardio. And [inaudible 00:23:22] is really going to upset some people. Cardiovascular exercise up regulates cortisol which is the hormone that protects your body fat. As in, it keeps you fatter longer. So when you go to the gym, you see people just running like rats on the treadmill, and they’re just running running running or they’re peddling, they’re not going to be getting what they want because now their hormonal system is fighting with them. Just don’t do it. It’s going to give you the opposite of what you want.
Dr. John Jaquish: So also, cortisol, another thing cortisol does is it acts against muscle mass to break muscle mass down. So you’re losing muscle, and protecting your body fat. You think about the logic of the central nervous system. Why would it do that? That sounds awful. Well, you’re showing your body a stimulus. Now remember, your central nervous system is like an engineering team working 24/7 in your body to make you as good as you can be, but when you give it a stimulus that says okay, I need to be a machine that goes long distances, it’s going to say, well, we need to conserve energy, so we’ve got to shrink muscle. And it’s also going to say well, we need to store energy, too, so we’re going to store more body fat.
Dr. John Jaquish: And also, bone density goes down because that’s weight that’s not needed because there’s no high impact in distance running. The midfoot strike is really how a distance runner runs, and it’s very low impact, so bone density goes down. Tendons and ligaments shrink, so everything’s shriveling as their doing this, and so because their body weight is low does not mean they’re healthy. So and then you look at a sprinter, and they’re leaner. Right? Who has more muscular definition? A distance runner or a sprinter? Sprinter. Right. Because sprinting actually does the opposite. It up regulates growth hormone and down regulates cortisol. Hence sprinters are muscular.
Nick: Amazing. Ben, do you have a question for John?
Ben: It was just around your meal plan. So it’s one meal a day? Do you eat it warm or cooked? And is there a time pattern that you tend to follow when you’re eating?
Dr. John Jaquish: I like kind of an early dinner. Maybe 6 o’clock. It depends. If I eat later, I just stay up later. You want some of the digestion to take place before you go to sleep, but I only eat one thing. Red meat. Pretty easy. The restaurant list is pretty simple. What steakhouses are in this town? The question I ask when I show up anywhere. That’s it.
Ben: That’s it.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Just a couple pounds of meat. Now I also take, the only supplement I take is Fortagen which is an even more efficient protein than steak, and the reason I developed that was because x3 users, when they found out, the guys who are 200 pounds, I’m 220 or 100 kilos, and so they were like wow, I can’t eat that much. It’s impossible. I can’t choke the food down. Now, part of it is just kind of like I roll my eyes like, yeah, you can, but all right. So I went and found a fermentation process that was typically used with cancer patients, and what that fermentation process creates, this bacterial byproduct, is essential amino acids. Because that’s the most important part of protein is those specific amino acids that your body cannot make on their own. A lot of people don’t know that. And if you’re missing one of the eight essential amino acids, all the rest of it gets flushed through your body in the form of nitrogen.
Dr. John Jaquish: If you’re missing one, you’re done. You’re not building any muscle. Or repairing any tissue, for that matter, your eyes or your skin or whatever. So you really have to have those essential amino acids. So I created an essential amino acid product, that’s what I was drinking, which I finished. It looks like lemonade, tastes like apples, it mixes clear, but it’s ten grams of protein in 16 ounces of water, but it makes up for 50 grams of standard protein source.
Nick: Oh wow.
Dr. John Jaquish: Because of the efficiency. Because of the utilization that we know that that combination of essential amino acids. Also, not all amino acids are created equal. Some of them are vegetable sourced, and yes, they’re there, they don’t absorb in the body. And so this is from fermentation. Because we’re actually supposed to eat rotting stuff. Think about it. If the three of us were living in the middle of England and we found a wooly mammoth or something, and we took that thing down, by the time we got to the last bite of that animal, probably not fresh.
Dr. John Jaquish: Right? Even if you cook it. Still not fresh. And despite the nice cool London air, it’s still not refrigerated. So bacteria’s taking hold, and we’re missing out on rotting stuff which is coincidentally where we get essential amino acids. So now, with Fortagen, I have replaced that in my nutrition. So it’s not as bad for me because my body weight is 220, it’s actually a little above that right now, I think I’m putting on muscle, I really haven’t done a DEXA scan recently, but which was to be expected, the impact, I don’t have to have over two pounds of steak if I don’t want to because I’m replacing that essential amino acid, and that’s the only supplement I take.
Dr. John Jaquish: There’s refinements to some of the programming in x3. I really want to make sure that the way the information is delivered, it’s easy to follow. I am encouraging people to follow the program to the letter. Not add silly exercises in the middle of it that might be compromising progress. Don’t think I’m going to do extra well because I’m going to carb backload or refeed or any of these other nonsensical ideas that don’t have science attached to them. Yes, you can retain more water when you have more carbohydrates. Oh, by the way, when you go carnivore, the hydration in your body is different.
Dr. John Jaquish: A lot of people say I tried going carnivore and I just had these headaches, and I felt horrible, and so I stopped, because obviously it was killing me, and I go wait a minute, if you smoke cigarettes, and you stop smoking cigarettes, you’ll get headaches. Does that mean you should always smoke cigarettes because it’s much better for you? No. What’s going on is nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. And once your body gets used to always having nicotine in it, it has mechanisms for managing that, and the new homeostasis after somebody becomes a smoker is there’s a level of vasoconstriction, so there’s a level of hydration, and then as soon as you take that variable away, the body’s stumbling to find homeostasis again, and you have dehydration periods, and you get headaches from dehydration. So the same thing happens when you go carnivore.
Dr. John Jaquish: The way around that is electrolytes. Or you can just put some sea salt in warm water, which you’re missing out on the potassium, but… Or just get an electrolyte tablet, and once you go carnivore, and you do this so you don’t have the headaches, you’ll never go back. Because it’s just body fat drops off, like, I’m lean. I have veins in my abdominals. I certainly am not feeling deprived, so I’m not hungry during the day because carbohydrates are what keeps you perpetually hungry, because I don’t have that, I’m not hungry, and then when I sit down for a meal, I eat a couple pounds of meat. That sounds great, doesn’t it?
Nick: It does sound great.
Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Yeah. I’m enjoying myself, and I also know that all the other stuff that I’m not eating is just garbage. It’s just toxic. So I’m just not eating it, and I’m better off for it. I suggest everybody give a try to what I’m doing, and then x3 also. X3 is absolutely the most powerful method of building muscle and being lean. And I’m seeing guys, especially the executive population, because a lot of guys who hang out at the gym all day, number one, they think they have all the answers, which is typical of the fitness community, but the other thing is, they feel like they’ve got the equipment in front of them, and how could a tiny thing that fits in a drawer in your house, which, it’s very compact, how could that small thing be better than an entire weight room?
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, if they bother to read the science I can show them why the weight room is no longer required, nor even relevant anymore. Now, I’ve also seen a lot of weight rooms put x3s in, so there are some gym owners that understand the science. So ultimately, it’s the executives that grabbed a hold of this because they didn’t have time, and we got hundreds, make that thousands of emails, 30,000 units in circulation right now, so we got thousands of emails from people that said I got this because it seemed convenient, and I might be able to get fit from it, I didn’t believe the claim that I would actually grow more muscle from this, and now that I have it, I realize that I’m in the best shape of my life, and I’m never going anywhere without this. So we have people who own like four of them. They have one in their office, they have one in the trunk of their car, one in their suitcase, and one in a drawer in their bedroom.
Nick: I was about to say, John, I think that for me, one of the greater things about x3 is you can travel with it easily, and second, you could have it in your office. It takes ten minutes. Everybody can find ten minutes in their day to do some kind of workout.
Dr. John Jaquish: After we get off this, I’m in my office. I’m going to go out and do my x3.
Nick: I’m very grateful for your time. I’ve got one last question for you and it’s what would be your three top tips for any execs that’s looking to upgrade their own personal and professional performance?
Dr. John Jaquish: Well, I think we kind of covered that. Yeah. I would tell them read about what I’m talking about. Follow me. Follow me on Instagram. Anybody who’s apprehensive and they say ten minutes a day, and there’s no weight, nobody’s saying that except this guy, which is actually not true, plenty of the athletes are saying it, but they might not know about that, so just follow. Just start reading the logic I’m applying and see some of the research that I use as citation points, and they’ll be oh my God so much better off. To the point where it’s almost like… I hear this all the time, I wish I had this when I was in college, because I’d be a professional athlete now. I hear that every day. Because that’s how great people are getting. They don’t realize that a lot of people really have great genetics.
Dr. John Jaquish: The whole weak genetics thing is kind of stupid because if you’re alive today, your genetics survived for millions of years. Your ancestors fought off animals that are five times their size. Unless you have a genetic disorder, like cerebral palsy or something like that, you don’t have weak genetics. You might have a lousy training program or bad nutrition that’s not allowing you to grow muscle, but. And I was stuck in that. When I was a chubby 190 pounds when I started x3, I thought I was kind of at my limit, I guess this is just as strong as I’m going to get, it’s my genetic limit. 45 pounds of muscle later and 16 pounds less of body fat. Oh, maybe this is my genetic potential. And I, take my shirt off, I look like a professional athlete.
Dr. John Jaquish: A lot of people can have that same experience, and it doesn’t take longer than ten minutes a day. They don’t need to leave their house or their office to do it.
Dr. John Jaquish: So the number one, follow me. Drjaquish on Instagram or Dr. Dr. John Jaquish on Facebook, and another person to follow is Dr. Shawn Baker. S-H-A-W-N Baker. And he’s a medical doctor who is really helping the world understand why meat is food, and the things that are not meat are really not food. Or they’re things that aren’t going to be very beneficial to you. So he kind of used carbohydrates as like if you put chimichurri sauce on your steak, yeah, there’s vegetables in that, and it’s not going to hurt you, but it’s not going to help you either. That’s it for the way he views it.
Dr. John Jaquish: And he just wrote a book. It’s not out yet, I actually have a prerelease copy of the book, and it’s dynamite. Really nice. So follow Shawn Baker for the carnivore nutrition. The third thing I recommend is take a piece of paper and write down the first two things I just said because I don’t want you forgetting them. Dr. John Jaquish, J-A-Q-U-I-S-H and Shawn Baker S-H-A-W-N B-A-K-E-R.
Nick: We’ll be sure to put everything in the show Dr. Jaquish and so people will be able click on the links there and find everything that we’ve spoken about. I’d just like to thank you very much for your time. It’s been awesome to speak to you. I’ve been a follower of you for at least two years, and I know everything that you say is sensible, it’s backed up by science, and you know it works, so I will definitely have everybody follow Dr. Dr. John Jaquish.
Dr. John Jaquish: Awesome. Thank you so much. Cheers.
Nick: I’d like to thank Dr. Dr. John Jaquish for his time and fascinating points of view. Do check out John on his social channels.