By Plant Free MD on October 26, 2022

Episode 41: Dr John Jaquish, PhD special guest interview

Author of Weight Lifting Is a Waste of Time and inventor of the X3 resistance training system, Dr. John Jaquish joins me today to talk about exercise physiology, optimal nutrition, weight loss, muscle building, and a lot more.

Full Transcript

Hello everyone, this is Dr. Anthony Chaffee. I’m here with a special guest, Dr. John Jaquish, who is a bestselling author and adventurer. He has a book called Weight Lifting Is a Waste of Time. He also has inventions that help support osteoporosis and can reverse osteoporosis to at least a certain extent.

We’ll talk more about that. And as the inventor of the X3 which is band resistance training.

Full disclosure, I have one myself and I’ve used it and like it. So Dr. Jaquish, thank you so much for coming on. How are you, sir?

Dr. John Jaquish: Anthony, thanks for having me. Yes, you call me John, but nobody calls me Dr. Jaquish.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Perfect.

Dr. John Jaquish: Also, my last name’s hard to pronounce, as we were just discussing. So I don’t want anyone to have to try and spell that or anything.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, sounds good.

Dr. John Jaquish: Now my website is just, that’s why.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh, okay. Perfect.

Dr. John Jaquish:

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Nice.

Dr. John Jaquish: People will never get my last name right.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. It’s probably easier. My mine too. I don’t know… When I wrestled in junBlogior high and high school, the announcers could never get the name, Chaffee. They just could not figure it out. And so I’ve wrestled 4, 5, 6 times in a meet and they would pronounce my name differently every single damn time. And I remember once it didn’t even start with a CH name. It was just some just large gibberish nonsense and I was just like, well, it’s kind of what I’m supposed to be up and that seems like I’ll just walk over to the mat and see. And my coaches were there. So I’m like, yeah, I guess that’s me. It’s me, Abernathy. I guess that’s my name now.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s kind of me. Their first name is Anthony. Good enough.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: And so it’s great. So for people that don’t know who you are, can you tell us a bit about yourself and the work that you do?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. A doctor of biomedical engineering. I started in life sciences because my mother was diagnosed with osteoporosis, wanted to help her and developed a series of devices that would mimic high-impact forces. So high impact forces into the body, are absorbed into the bone mass at very specific impact-ready positions. So for example, this kind of position for those not watching, back in hand in line with the clavicle, 120-degree angle between upper and lower arm, that’s how you trip and fall, that’s how you’re going to protect your face from hitting the ground. And the body’s very efficient at reacting in that way. We are seven times stronger in the impact-ready range of motion than we are in the weaker range of motion. However, we keep doing something really stupid. We keep lifting weights. If you’re seven times stronger in one part of the movement than you are in the other part of the movement, why the hell would you lift a static weight? That’s dumb. That’s not how the body works. And so I went to develop something that matched our biomechanics, or at least came close because now what we’re doing, just regular resistance training, it’s the same weight on the bottom where you have one-seventh of the capacity of what you have at the top. So you pick a weight. When you go weightlifting, you pick a weight that you can handle in the weakest range of motion. And you’re stimulating very little musculature, but you are damaging the joints chronically. And Dr. Peter Attia, he’s said this several times, he says, my problem with weightlifting is we overload joints and underload muscle. I love it. I mean, he was sort of thinking the same way I was and he said this while I was developing this. So wow. He and I are thinking right along the same line. And he’s a fit guy, but he focuses on endurance exercise because he likes weightlifting just not it. And I love that he made that comment and it made perfect sense to me because it was in line with my research. So I compiled a bunch of research, pretty much everything on variable resistance, and determined not only that variable resistance wins against regular resistance training hands down every single time. There was one fraudulent study, and I believe it was malice that drove this study where the variable resistance group… The control group was allowed to lift however much weight they lifted in the gym. So whatever the relevant weight is. But the variable resistance people were only allowed to train with TheraBand which goes up to 14 pounds. So they’re only allowed to lift 14 pounds. And then the conclusion was that variable resistance wasn’t good. Well, the real test was rigged. No one’s going to get stronger from 15 pounds of force. You use more strength from putting your shirt on in the morning. I mean, it was just a stupid study. But other than that one, which is fraudulent, 19 out of 19 studies find that variable resistance puts on muscle much faster, gets you stronger, much faster, faster recovery, and zero muscle soreness. It turns out soreness is not lactic acid. You actually cannot feel lactic acid. Soreness is from micro tear damage, which is inversely related to growth. So the more damage you do to muscle, the less muscle you grow. So it’s fatigue, not damage. So the whole idea is that we need to get little tears in our muscles and then they grow back better. False. That’s not how it works at all. If you have damage, then you won’t grow. If you don’t have damage and you took the muscle to fatigue, then you do grow. And that’s another myth I wrestle with sometimes if I just decide to talk to confuse people, which I spend some days doing. And usually, it just ignores these people. They are unwilling to learn anything. But we do live in a clown world today. So there are a lot of people who are unwilling to listen or learn. Coincidentally, I think the internet is run by a certain group that’s very easily identified in the Dunning-Kruger study in 1999. Are you familiar with that?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: I’ve heard of it, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Okay. It’s my favorite study. You’ll bring it up at a cocktail party, I promise. And what it says is that the dumbest people think they’re the most competent and smartest people. I mean, that just explains the internet. We see people making sweeping statements like this is the way things are. And they don’t even know the definition of the words they’re using, but they’re not intelligent. So what they don’t know doesn’t stop them because they don’t know what they don’t know. Whereas the smart… And here’s the funny part, in the study the smartest people thought they were a little above average. They didn’t think they aced it. I did great, but I was confused by a few different puzzles and questions and stuff like that. And because smart person knows what they don’t know, therefore they question a lot of things. Is this all the information? Have I even been given all the information to answer the question? Whereas the dumbass doesn’t think about that. I know the answer to everything.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. I don’t know if you are familiar with him. I love Thomas.

Dr. John Jaquish: I think I’ve read everything he’s written.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, he’s brilliant.

Dr. John Jaquish: One of my favorite people.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah same. And one of the things that he said that has always stuck with me was that it takes a lot of knowledge to understand just how ignorant we are. And unfortunately, a lot of these people will never get there. And so they think that I just know everything, I can see everything, all the pieces of the puzzle. And they only see a small piece of it. As the old saying, a small bit of information is a dangerous thing. And that’s exactly what I think is being described there these people just think that they can see the whole puzzle and extrapolate from that, the entire picture. And of course, that’s very difficult to do. Socrates as well. I mean, he said that he was said to be the wisest man in the world, but he is like, how can I be the wise man? I don’t know anything. Why me? And he went around talking to all the most learned people. And the study shows, these people taught very highly of themselves. And he just started talking to them and asking them questions and realized these guys didn’t know jack, but they also didn’t know that they didn’t know jack. And he at least knew that he didn’t know jack.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, this is kind of a sidebar, but I’ve always tried to hang out with smart people because I can learn something from them and not smart people that I might meet at some shitty dive bar or something like that. I’m just not interested in talking to them. So I realized that I pretty much… My social time is spent at private clubs. I joined all kinds of private clubs because I just want the moron quotient to be lower. I don’t want zero. I mean, that’s impossible. But when maybe 50% of the people in the room have something interesting to say, that’s going to be a great night.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. I think it was… Oh, who was it? comedian, Carlin. He said that if you think about it, the average IQ is 100. What does that mean? It’s average. That means that definitionally half the people that you meet in your life, day to day basis are below-average intelligence. It’s like what? That was a pretty frightening thought. I mean, I’ve certainly known people that aren’t as intellectually gifted, that still work hard and still recognize that they don’t know certain things and don’t try to act like it. And they become very, very successful and interesting people. They just work on it.

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh yeah. Somebody doesn’t have to be a genius, but at least t know that you don’t know everything.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. John Jaquish: I think no matter who I say this too, no matter where they are on politics, I just think of the dumbass posts you see in politics and either direction. It’s just like people are just saying outlandish stupid shit. It’s like, where the fuck did you get that? I mean, now chances are they probably got it from CNN because CNN lies, and nobody checks. But that’s like somebody posts something ludicrous. I’m like, did you get that from CNN?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: There was a study out of Columbia, it was like 2015 or something like that, that came out and they found that 52% of people who comment on some sort of internet post and talk knowledgeably saying, well no no, this is wrong. And this is why 52% of them have never clicked the link.

Dr. John Jaquish: You didn’t know the author of that study?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No.

Dr. John Jaquish: I love to reference that all the time.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: I’ll look it up for you.

Dr. John Jaquish: Put it in the show notes. I think everybody wants to see that. That’s awesome. Yes. The headline might lead you to believe that the study is about how carbohydrates are good, but the study’s about how you don’t want carbohydrates in your diet and they’ll just jump to a conclusion based on the title.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah or you read these first. I first sort of looked at that… Well actually just reading the WHO studies when I was 13, I’m probably one of the few people who was fact-checking the WHO when they were 13. But they came out with this outrageous claim that Cuba had a better healthcare system than America. I’m like, there’s not a chance in hell.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Oh, anyone who’s in Cuba that has a problem, they’re out of that country. They’re in Canada, they’re somewhere else to try and get…

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: If they can, they’re able to.

Dr. John Jaquish: Or are they just dying?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: So I was looking at that, I’m like, there is not a chance in hell that that’s the case. But there was a lot of stuff getting pushed out that Cuba was so great, communism is so awesome. It’s like how? How is that possible? And this was 1993 and I was just like… The Berlin wall just fell four years ago and we’re already saying communism is better. What? So I ended up finding the study from the WHO and they ranked the Cuban healthcare system as one of the top five healthcare systems in the world. And they ranked the US at like 76. It was way down the ladder.

Dr. John Jaquish: It was some Marxist that wrote the article.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Well the head of the… Reportedly, the head of the WHO at least now is an open Marxist. So I don’t know if it was then, but there’s a political bent to these international institutions and certainly with the WHO.

Dr. John Jaquish: And they’re also getting paid off. Whoever wants Marxism and anyone with money wants Marxism by the way because it institutionalizes them as the bank. Nobody realizes that. Why do all these rich people want Marxism? It must be good for everybody. No, they already made their money. They want to be the lending institution. They know if they’re the only ones with money and nobody else has money, somebody has to come to them when they want to start anything. Start a business, build a house, whatever. If you’re a billionaire worth maybe 20 million minimum. You’re going to be one of the new banks.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah and so this article saying that we were way down the list like 76, which I was like too far. If you said that we were tenth and Cuba was like fifth, I’d be like, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t have looked into it. But they just really overshot their mark.

Dr. John Jaquish: It was egregious.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: And then said, well that’s not fair though because some countries are richer than other countries. And so you’re working with what you have.

Dr. John Jaquish: Adjusted for wealth.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah by GDP. So the US…

Dr.t ohn Jaquish: Talk about a worthless study.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Absolutely.

Dr. John Jaquish: We’re going to tell you exactly how it is, except we’re going to adjust it based on some other metric that you didn’t ask about.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly. And they don’t tell you about it either. The WHO… This is the first of three that I’ve seen that are exactly like this. They put in these little qualifiers that just make it complete bullshit. So they divided it by GDP. So Uthe S had the number one medical outcomes and access to doctors and treatments for heart disease and cancer and diabetes and traumas and all these sorts of things. But we also had the number one GDP. So our ratio was one-to-one. And Cuba had a terrible healthcare system, terrible medical outcomes. But they also had a…

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: But yet they had a more GDP and so they had a positive ratio.

Dr. John Jaquish: I mean, if you were raising money to invest in Cuba and you used that data, you could be sued for investment fraud.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. I’m very familiar with… I got tangled up with some dudes who got in trouble for defrauding people based on whatever information that was dubious or completely falsified if you looked into it.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, WHO does that a lot as well. And I found that if you see something on the WHO website and it has a link to the article right there and it just sort of shows its work, it could be pretty much… Probably their conclusions are with it.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right but when you have trouble finding that study, there’s a reason you have trouble finding it.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Exactly. And I’ve noticed that they did another one when I was in medical school where they ranked the US 37th and a lot of things came out, people saying, well we spend the most per capita on healthcare in America, but we’re only ranked 37th. We’re not even getting our money’s worth. And again, I was just like, I don’t think so. I think that’s bullshit. And so I looked at the study again, it looked at… It had five criteria, one of which was anything worth knowing about, which was medical outcomes and access to doctors, and access to MRIs and X-rays. And that was one.

Dr. John Jaquish: The only variable that matters, let’s dilute that by four other variables.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: And one of the other…

Dr. John Jaquish: What are the other ones?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: And one of the others… All the others were sort of along these lines. But the one I remember in particular said, what percentage of the lower 20th percentiles’ medical bills do the upper 20th percentile pay for? And the answer to that of course is who gives a shit? Because what does that have to do with your mom dying of cancer or not? And of course, only,e only relevant criteria, which are actual medical outcomes and access to care, we were again number one but they diluted it down and they had these fudge factors to make it appear as if the US wasn’t great. And then another one came out a few years later and ranked us 40th and I just didn’t even waste my time reading it because I knew it was garbage. But that’s the thing is that all these studies I try to stress on people have to read them yourself, have to read the studies yourself. Don’t just read the conclusion. Certainly jus,t don’t read the headlines. When you’re going through reading news reports or whatever, there’s always going to be a catchy headline. But does the article support that headline and that conclusion? Quite often it doesn’t. And it is really important to read the article.

Dr. John Jaquish: I just started a TikTok account and I think half of my posts have been just dispelling myths. And one of them was somebody posted or somebody published in the New England Journal, it was a Chinese study that got published in the New England Journals and already I’m like… Because that never happened up until Biden became president. Anyway, so they published this article that determined that intermittent fasting didn’t do anything and calorie restriction was the way to go. Now, anyone who’s read into this and compared the two studies, that’s just not true. And there’s a whole host of reasons. But when you know anything about intermittent fasting, the real benefits started at 18 hours. Well, the fasting group at 16 hours, and on top of that, they were allowed to eat whatever they wanted. Go ahead, eat just anything, three chocolate cakes, whatever. They just had an early dinner is how off this16-pulled fast period, which is not real. It’s like skipping breakfast. You’re not a hero for that. If you’re going to do intermittent fasting, let’s try 72 hours, how about with no food or water? That will get you incredible results with the metabolic water that’s leached out of fat cells. Unbelievable, the results you’ll get out of that. But let’s do that study. And coincidentally, when that study is done and there was just one done with five within Five days, no food, no water, these people all lost 15 pounds of body fat. This is after rehydration.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh wow.

Dr. John Jaquish: In five days they’re averaging three pounds of fat loss per day.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Nice.

Dr. John Jaquish: So I just point out that this New England Journal study is not worth reading because when the benefits started at 18 and they only did one for 16 hours. Don’t read it. It’s dumb. They didn’t even need to do this study. We already knew that didn’t work.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Well and also it’s not controlling for that either because you’re having these people eat different things. And you have some calories, the same basic sort of input.

Dr. John Jaquish: And that study’s been done and it came out much more positive for intermittent fasting. But as soon as you have one group eating whatever they wanted, they didn’t even control it. It’s like, we don’t know if they had 2000 calories or 4000.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, I agree that’s a bit of a ridiculous study. As far as fasting goes, I saw a lot of studies that show that fasting is very, very beneficial. And some studies lookt look at fasting-mimicking diets, which as the ketogenic diet. You’re just getting into that metabolic state, the so-called fasting metabolic state. And we spoke about this briefly off there, and they think we both sort of agreed that the so-called fasting metabolic state probably is our primary metabolic state. And we only call it a fasting state because by the time we were able to look at our biochemistry at a molecular level, everyone was eating carbohydrates and it just said, oh, this is what it looks like when you eat.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right, you have to constantly eat carbohydrates.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly. And so when you get out of that, things work much better. And then people get these large benefits maybe from fasting. But I think a large part of that is going to be from just being in the correct metabolic state. Do you know of studies that… Because most of the studies that I’ve seen are just comparing fasting fasting-mimicking diet just to a standard American diet.

Dr. John Jaquish: Not yet. No carnivore… We just had the first, where use the word carnivore. I mean, I’m probably preaching some of the same stuff you’ve been talking about. But previous in studies and there’s one, don’t remember the author usually pretty good at that. I just don’t remember the author of this one. It was an epidemiology study and they found a thousand people… This is the one that said, meat and colorectal cancer, you increase your chances by 2%. When you read down the methods section, you realize that these people ate nitrate meat, not steak. They ate like a gas station hot dog. You can’t even buy nitrate meat in the grocery store anymore. So I think it’s only prison food and maybe what a gas station can get. Because it keeps, that’s what nitrates are for. It’s preservatives. So people that ate nitrate meat every single day, seven days a week for 40 years, had a 2% greater chance of colorectal cancer. Okay. Now were these people who were eating a gas station hotdog every day, were they doing it for their health? Probably not.

Dr. John Jaquish: Were they doing it for their health? Probably not. If you know anyone who eats a gas station hot dog every day, is there a higher chance that they may have some other unhealthy habits? Smoking, drinking, cocaine, heroin, meth.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: I mean, the only people that I’ve ever seen order a gas station hot was were living behind the dumpster next to the gas station, and they liked meth. They didn’t control for any of that. Nothing. It was another one of these fraudulent studies. It was one of these studies that were created to mislead you.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: The bias is just outrageous. Why on earth would you… You know exactly what kind of people you’re dealing with. This isn’t a study, this is a hit piece on the meat industry. I tell all my fans, you’ll notice the funding from a lot of pro carbohydrate studies comes from some nutrition institution, whatever, sounds academic and governmental. Yeah, no, it’s. These are all organizations that are owned by Nabisco and General Mills. They’re just selling you what they make. They’re telling you Doritos are good for you because they want you to buy more Doritos.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Yeah. That’s like…

Dr. John Jaquish: We’ve had that forever. Let’s see, General Motors cars, not that I have a problem with the company General Motors, but 300 awards from JD Power and Associates, if you’ve heard that, from a Chevy whatever, chevy Cruz. They have awards for best 30-day satisfaction. It’s a brand-new car. If you’re not happy in the first 30 days, that’s probably a pretty car. They have to have an award for that. It turns out JD Power is a company that you can just go and buy an award from.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh really?

Dr. John Jaquish: You pay them a fee and they’ll just award you for whatever.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh, I can get a couple.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Ex Philips

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. I want one that just says I’m handsome.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Most handsome guy in 2022, Dr. J.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Most handsome man in town.

Dr. John Jaquish: Companies do this, and the food industry is no different. The difference is it can hurt people. Whereas General Motors comes up with some weird metric to say their cars are great, and if you check one out and you like it, it’s probably a great car, but not because of the awards.

My point is, Nabisco and Kellogg and General Mills and Da, noon, all these companies that are buying research, they’re doing it to sell their products. They want everybody to go vegan because they know vegans don’t eat kale. Vegans eat cookies and cake that are just… like Oreo cookies. Oreo cookie cookies are just through the roof. It’s because of vegans.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Well, yeah. And that’s the thing. People don’t know that; Oreo cookies are vegan. It’ll say on there, vegan friendly. It’s like, are we trying to say that Oreo cookies are good for you?

I’m sorry, there’s some sort of weird alarm going on here. Let me just mute this now. All right, I think that’s over. I’ll try to clip that out.

Dr. John Jaquish: Hey, you’re in Australia. Maybe somebody wasn’t wearing their mask.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: It could be, and they just have to get the snipers out. Certainly.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, got to kill them.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, just got to go. You’re not going to conform. Do you know? Oh my God, they fooled me on that one, hold on. They keep doing this where it’s like, it’ll just go for a little bit and then it’ll stop, and then, hopefully, that’s it. But sorry about that.

Dr. John Jaquish: Happens.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Where was I going with that? I forgot.

Dr. John Jaquish: You were talking about research being funded by snack food companies and how it’s just so fraudulent.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh yeah. Oreos. Yeah. Yeah. Articles will come out now and then, it says, Oh, well drinking three glasses of wine a night, is better for your heart than an hour of cardio. I’m like, get lost.

Dr. John Jaquish: I remember that. I remember that study, and from one tiny metric of metabolic health, I think it was just how much alcohol raises your heart rate versus a light jog. And by the way, I don’t jog like that.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No. Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: My heart rate goes way up if I’m moving. What the hell are they talking about? Anyway, I remember that article. It was really popular in women’s magazines. Elite Daily ran that 10 times.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Because that’s what people want to hear. People want to hear that they can still have cookies and cake and have the body they want. That’s great until you ask anyone who’s in shape, and they’re going to be like, No, that’s super not the way it works.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, well…

Dr. John Jaquish: All that food, just don’t even view it as food. When somebody says, you want pizza? I’m like, Oh, that’s not food. I won’t eat that. It’s just not.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, obviously I do a carnivore sort of diet. People say, Well, that’s so restrictive. I don’t think so. I’m eating food. I’m eating food that is designed for humans. I eat all the food that’s designed for humans and I don’t eat poison. I don’t think that’s restrictive. Are you restricted by… you don’t shoot heroin or crack.ll, that’s pretty restrictive.

Dr. John Jaquish: Here’s how I answer that question. I say, once you realize what should be consumed by the human body, it’s not restrictive at all. Everything else is just crap that you were marketed to. It’s just marketing. You don’t want Doritos. You don’t want… I don’t know, whatever…

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oreo cookies.

Dr. John Jaquish: Oreo cookies. Someone tried to hand me a sleeve of Oreos and she’s like, I know you want these. She was kidding. If I found that in my car, I’d throw it away.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yearly.

Dr. John Jaquish: Like it’s trash.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Well, it’s true. And people say that, Well, even people that want to do a vegan diet, vegan means just without meat. It’s not even plant-based necessarily. That’s vegetarian. Vegan just means no animal products whatsoever. Oreo cookies are vegan, they’re also vegetarian, crack cocaine that’s vegan, it’s also vegetarian, it’s plant-based. So is heroin.

Dr. John Jaquish: Even heroin.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Just as long as it doesn’t have animal products, then it’s okay. Or plant-based, then it’s okay? But of course, there are so many things that we recognize full well that are causing serious harm.

Dr. John Jaquish: Neither of us gives veggies a hard time. We just promote meat as healthy food. But when you plant a field, what do you need to make the vegetables grow? You need manure from animals. You need bone meal;ground-up bones from slaughtered cows. Those are the two things that they put in the soil before planting a field. Never mind the fact that they might’ve killed thousands or even hundreds of thousands of animals to build that field. They have to continue to kill and poison animals that are coming into that field. Because the animals, it’s still their habitat. It’s not like they got a map and they’re like, you’re not allowed here anymore. They just go there. Birds go and try and eat corn and they get poisoned by the millions. 7 billion animals in the United States are destroyed every year for the sake of vegetable farming.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh wow. I didn’t know that.

Dr. John Jaquish: If you took poultry… If you combine pork, poultry, and beef, if you combine those three things, it’s about equal, equally an equal amount of death. But 70% of the standard American diet is plant-based. Even though it’s 50/50 when it comes to killing animals, more of the calories are coming from plant-based. They ignore that. But if you take the chicken out of the equation, and you just look at beef and pork, the amount of death that plants create is insane. It was something like maybe 5 million cattle per year would feed everyone.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: 500 pounds of muscle meat in each one of them.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s a lot of food.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, it’s a lot. Big cow

Dr. John Jaquish: If I had my own space/land, and I had bison running around on it, I’d eat one and a half animals per year.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, depending on size, those things are massive bastards. Of course, chickens are smaller, so you need more of them to go.

Dr. John Jaquish: You kill more of them.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. And the very glaring difference between these two statistics is that the animals that we’re killing to eat, we are eating them. Whereas the ones that we are just killing to get off our crops, go to waste.

Dr. John Jaquish: And it’s seasonal.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Yeah. It’s the…

Dr. John Jaquish: A vegan doesn’t know that, and if they’re told it, they put it out of the mind, it’s an achieved ignorance. I’m going to ignore all of these facts. What did Joe Biden say? We follow truth, not facts.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh.

Dr. John Jaquish: The President of the United States said that.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh well. Yeah. Yeah. Truth, not facts.

Dr. John Jaquish: Awesome.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Doesn’t truth come from facts? Pretty sure. Pretty sure.

Dr. John Jaquish: I would have said so, but he got elected.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: So we’re told.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: 81 million people voted for him.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: That’s a lot. Yeah. Most ever.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Well more than ever.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. You were talking earlier you mentioned that people wanted to do the same thing and get different results. We touched on this before coming on air, but that’s one of the things is that we have people that… You’ve said that you’ve received very, very threatening messages when you just say, Hey, if you want to lose weight, and you want to get in better shape, just cut down on the carbs, or maybe just eliminate the carbs. People get very, very upset by that. And the people that are…

Dr. John Jaquish: I get death threats because of the carbs.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Which is crazy. You’re just a doctor and a scientist trying to put forward evidence to help people. And this somehow infuriates people when you’re…

Dr. John Jaquish: By the way, by telling people to eat fewer carbohydrates and more protein, I make no money, not my business model at all. I’m just trying to help people out. I make nothing. Instead, I try and tell them like, well if you want to be leaner. I eat all kinds of and it doesn’t seem to have much of an effect on me. I also notice those are the same people who claim to have no appetite.

Yeah, they go and eat pizza, but they’re also never hungry. So, do they eat a lot of pizza? Not. But if somebody tells me that, it’s like, it’s not my problem. I’m like, Yeah, if you get your protein minimum, one gram per pound of body weight, yeah.

If you don’t tend to be addicted to these things, or if you take them out of your system and then put them back in, do you feel any inflammation? Some people say yes, and some people say no. Hey, limiting carbohydrates doesn’t necessarily mean eliminating them. I even do have a protocol in the book that calls for some carbohydrates to stimulate hyperplasia, so you get a surge of muscle glycogen going into musculature after a workout. But even replacing the ugly… By the way, replacing glycogen estimates, up until recently, was ridiculous. Maybe for a large muscular person, 20 grams of glucose is required.

That’s not even a Snickers bar, guys. That’s nothing. That’s how much muscle glycogen there is. People say like, I’m flat. I don’t feel full muscles. It’s like, But you’re obese, so how about you let the muscles take the backseat for now, or your perception of what your muscles are?? We were talking about this last night, a lot of guys, feel like they’re losing muscular size. Like, Oh because I’m losing all the glycogen out of my muscles. No, it’s because you had intramuscular fat which you’re losing.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Which is good.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. You don’t want that. You don’t want to be well-marbled.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No.

Dr. John Jaquish: When something eats you, you want to be the toughest piece of meat they, ’ve ever come across.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. John Jaquish: Also, don’t get eaten. But that’s not reaching today.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Well, if you get in the wild also, if you’re just a bunch of lean muscle mass, you’re going to be harder to kill and you’re going to be the one doing the killing more often, if you’re overweight and have a lot of intermuscular fat, you’re not going to be as dynamic and dangerous out in the wild.

That’s a survival thing as well. People forget that we feed carbohydrates and grains to cattle to fatten them up and put in intermuscular fat to get that marbling that we like, as predators, for taste. But that is also, in turn, happening to us when we eat carbohydrates and grains and that’s what people don’t understand. That’s something we spoke about last night where I think that, from my athletic background and career, I always felt far better…

No, I did, I played high-level rugby both on carnivore, and also not on carnivore, just because I didn’t know as much as I do now. You can get in remarkable shape by eating carbs and eating normal things. I never really ate all the processed crap and sugar, but I was almost entirely eating meat. I would have a salad, or some bread, or whatever, every nowhen as well. Still mostly meat-based, and I was in very good shape, and was able to perform very well. I always performed far better, I was just a different human being, when I was on a carnivore.

Dr. John Jaquish: Calories, they keep talking about calories.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Carbohydrates are not even a macronutrient. Nothing in your body needs carbohydrates. Other than muscle glycogen, which as I said, that’s like a drop in the bucket. That’s like nothing for carbohydrates. Other than that… By the way, your body will make, and if you don’t have it, probably not for hyperplasia purposes because you need a rush of that, and you need it in the muscle so it stretches. It’s like an actual mechanical stretching process to stimulate hyperplasia. Still, carbohydrates exist in nature to get animals fat.

That’s it. For certain animal species, putting on body fat very quickly is advantageous. I mentioned this last night too, bears give themselves Type II diabetes every year. Type II diabetes is not a pathogen, it’s a system of the body. I would say it’s not a dysfunction, it’s a function that we make a dysfunction by our behavior because what the bear does every year is they give themselves Type II diabetes, and then put on fat very quickly, which helps them survive the winter because they just dig a hole and lay there for three or four months. You can’t do that if you’re lean, but if you’re really fat, you can do that.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the thing with bodybuilding, they want to just pack in all these calories, and they think that equates to muscle growth. I don’t think that there’s any…

Dr. John Jaquish: They just keep getting fat, and then they have to diet, and they’re torturing themselves doing that, screwing up their metabolism because they’re also still doing caloric restriction, which… My biggest gripe against caloric restriction is, does it woworksFor some time and then you have a metabolic adaptation so that you can be at a deficit, and then you start putting on body fat again because your body has just deprioritized a couple of things like regenerating skin, and regenerating digestive cells.

You go through less autophagy and use older dysfunctional cells. There’s a question about cancer there, too. People without into autophagy tend to be, I mean this is a theory, but it’s a theory that makes an awful lot of sense. You’re never renewing your cells when you’re in this calorie negative, but also, not losing body fat, metabolic adaptation. Some people screw up their metabolisms for a long time. There was a study not that long ago on the people who had been on the show, The Biggest Loser six years ago, their metabolism still doesn’t work.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh, great.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yes. Six years. They’ve had a metabolic rate so that even when they eat at a deficit, they’re gaining body fat.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Jesus.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s all you need to know; calorie deficit. Also, the bodybuilding community loves to simplify things into memes. All of their advice is going to come from a meme, a sentence fragment, like five words. They love calorie restriction, calories in, calories out. That’s all that matters. Jesus. That is like so oversimplified, it’s wrong.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. So that was one thing I was talking to Professor Ben Bickman from BYU about, which was that he’s been studying insulin and as effects on humans for 15-plus years. He was saying that when your insulin’s up, your metabolism just goes down. When you are not eating carbohydrates, your actual basal metabolic rate, you use 300 to 400 more calories just running your system than you would otherwise. Even if you wanted to argue the calories in, calories out thing, when you change your metabolic function, you are going to be using different amounts of calories just for your basic function. As you say, you’re not going to start recycling these cells, that takes energy and you don’t have the excess energy at the moment. That can certainly keep these different genetic changes that could precipitate cancer as well.

Dr. John Jaquish: I’m glad you mentioned that. So, when you have low energy, your body doesn’t recycle cells, or it recycles less.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: There’s always some metabolism of cells going on. Far less. But if you eat zero calories, can your body adjust to zero? No, it cannot. This is why I promote it in fasting, your body won’t adjust to zero. So you can fast hard, dry fast, no water, no food, 72 hours, three days. You’ll lose three pounds of body fat a day, for most people. I’m a little bit less because I’m already pretty lean. But I’m actually, tomorrow I’m coming off… Well, right now it has been 48 hours since I’ve had any food or water.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Okay.

Dr. John Jaquish: Do I seem foggy? Do I seem confused? No, I feel great. Yeah, but here’s the thing, the body cannot adjust to zero.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Okay.

Dr. John Jaquish: When you’re fasting, it has no choice. It’s going after the body

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Right. So obviously, this is something that you do. How often do you fast? How do you work that into your schedule? And what do you like to do?

Dr. John Jaquish: I wanted to come up with a protocol that people would follow, because hey, the best diet in the world doesn’t mean nobody follows it. It’s got to be followable. I’ve been running some experiments with myself based on some of the things I’ve read. I was trying to do one meal a day at a deficit, so not a huge meal, a reasonable meal, and then fasted the rest of the time. I think my body perceived that as just calorie restriction, and I didn’t get as much benefit from the fasting because it was still on a 24-hour cycle. I hit a metabolic wall, I had an adjustment. I was eating very little and seeing almost no fat loss progress, and I even gained some body fat. I did that to see what that protocol would be like. That protocol worked for about six months, and then for another three months, I just got nothing. And so, I was in the middle of a lot of traveling and I didn’t have time to examine it. When I went back to reexamine what went wrong, should I just “refeed” and just go back to normal carnivore, and then try and do this? I’ve got to help people lose a lot of body fat. That’s just part of the customer base. There’s going to be overweight people and got to help them. They may need the most help. These are the people that walk into the gym and trainers don’t want to talk to them, don’t even want them as clients because it’s embarrassing standing next to an obese person. I’m not saying that’s my attitude. My attitude is the opposite of that. That’s how they’re treated in gyms. Overweight people are not welcome in gyms. In fact contact with tthe largest gym chains in the world told me, we havhave policy to tell overweight people to go somewhere else, because we want our place to be cool. We want a nightclub with treadmills. Just good-looking people.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: That’s absurd. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, but that’s the business. This guy is not a bad guy. The guy that told me this. He’s like, We’re there to make money. Heavy people are bad for business. I was just like, what? Those are the people that need the help. The people who show up and they’re already in great shape. They’re probably doing 10 other things. They don’t need the gym.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No.

Dr. John Jaquish: But that’s just the way the world is. Everybody with a business is trying to grow it. Now, I’m fortunate, you’re fortunate because we got a business that the better we do, the healthier people get. I wouldn’t live a life with any other formula. Also, I don’t have a great bedside manner. I tell people to shutthe upp and do what they’re told because there’s a lot of research on this. A lot of people pined over it, and it’s really important, and it’s going to fix you. I don’t want your editorial. I don’t want you to be like, Well yeah, but I need to have a pizza while I watch a football game.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: You don’t actually.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, no you don’t.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: You don’t need to eat at all. You’re watching. Maybe you should pay more attention to the game.

Dr. John Jaquish: You don’t need to eat at all. You’re watching, maybe you should pay more attention to the game.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Whatever. I don’t care what your excuse is. It’s an excuse.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: And I’m not accepting it.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. John Jaquish: You don’t have to be like that.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. So now are you doing intermittent fasting or you’re doing a 72-hour fast at the moment?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, so what I’m doing is I’m building levels when you first, this is meant for just the average person. The average person doesn’t know anything about dieting. Maybe they’ve tried all the diets, or maybe they haven’t tried any. Or they have a South beach diet, that book that they found at a garage sale for a penny, which would be overpriced. But they buy the book and they read it and they’re like, “Okay, so I need high fat and high carbohydrates and it’ll lose all the weight I want. So whoa, pizza’s good for me.” That kind of thing. They’ve had nothing but failure, and it’s really easy to find people who’ve had nothing but failure when it comes to their nutrition. So I want to have different steps. You can’t rearrange their life overnight unless they’re just coming off a heart attack or something like that.

Those people are great listeners. Yeah, phenomenal. But they have to have that moment, which sucks. I’d rather catch people beforehand. So to catch people beforehand, what I’m trying to do is just come up with different recommendations where the first one, it’s just cut out all processed foods, just anything with a package, unless it grew on a tree or it would run away if you stabbed it in the ass, those are the only two things you should be eating. Anything else? It’s not food. And so people are like, “Okay, I can still eat apples because I like apples.” Sure. Still have that stuff. Way better than the stuff in the packages. So that’s level one. And level two you might do one meal a day kind of thing. And then the problem with fasting is that for it to re effective, you got to go all the way.

And when you do multi-day and especially dry.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Okay.

Dr. John Jaquish: Cause when you’re dry fasting, you’re pulling metabolic water out of fat cells, fat cells are only 10% water. So what happens when you start to dry fast is, you know, feel liandand hungry and a little weak. And then all of a sudden, and you’ll know the moment, all of a sudden when that first fat cell bursts and you’ve got all that, I mean you would just see your triglycerides would be low. Everything would be low. And you’d see your LDL go way the fuck up. By the way, the highest LDLs recorded are from people who are fasting.

So saying LDL is bad is like saying losing body fat is bad for you. You know the opposite to be true. I wish I had been around 20 years ago and LDLs were vilified. It’s just like, but that’s how we lose body fat. \We’re pretty sure that it’s not the culprit. So anyway. Yeah, I mean your LDLs skyrocket and you get energy and focus because it’s faster than just ketone bodies. You’re best cells, which by the way, caloric restriction can never do. It just shrinks fat cells and then expands them when you start eating again, you’re destroying them in dry fasting.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Is that only dry fasting or can you do that with wet fasting? Or does it have to be a state of mild dehydration to go along with it?

Dr. John Jaquish: As far as we know.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Because it’s your body’s… So I haven’t had any liquid and I’ll send you the study after. There are two studisand , they’re great. Where people wfor ent five days, no foand od, no water. And even if you’re not a scientific person, I encourage you to read these studies and try and understand them, because it’s kind of hilarious that it goes so far against what we’ve been told. You know, you need eight glasses of water a day. You know where that came from? Gatorade.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: That’s weird.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Gatorade came up with that and o,f course the bottled water companies just jumped on that horse and rode it right into the ground. Yeah. You neglassesght glass of water a day. Yeah. No study ever found that. In fact, the only thing that’s ever been studied about hydration was in 1943. That’s how interested the medical community is in hydration, though they probably should consult with some anesthesiologists because they have some strong feelings on this. You do not want to do anesthesiology on a dehydrated person. However, the dehydration is quick because what happens is you get dehydrated and then you start tapping metabolic water, you’re not dehydrated anymore. So in this study, the people that were on the fifth day of no foodand , no water, they were urinating the same amouon nt of urine as day one. Where did the water come from?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: How is your body still… So even though you are, quote, a little dehted, but you’re not like… If you do this, you know, sometimes you just reach to scratch the back of your head and your bicep just knots right up when you’re… That doesn’t happen.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Never happens. So you’re hydrated enough where you don’t get any cramping or anything like that. No headaches and you’re fine. And you still produce the same amount of urine. And of course, at some point,t you’re a couple of days in, and you’re like, “Where is it coming from?” It’s coming from the metabolic water.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: That’s interesting. Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Awesome.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, it’s funny, I’ve never tried dry fasting. It would be interesting to sort of check it out. I’venoticedd in patients that just fasting in general, might accelerate things a bit if they’re looking for rapid weight loss. But one of the nice things about carnivore re diet is that you don’t have to, I think that your body can regulate this as well and you will automatically go into, you can call it a caloric deficit if you want to, but your body is just telling you you don’t need as much food if you’re just eating carnivore and-

Dr. John Jaquish: Well when you eat carnivore, you feel full. You know, you eat a steak… And I did do a little over a year, 100% carnivore. I didn’t have anything. I wouldn’t eventhe sugarr-free gum. Actually, ly I’d never chew sugar-free gum. But I mean just like zero went in me, except for animal protein and water. And I felt dynamite. I did get a little bit of pushback when I told people they shouldn’y do exactly what I’m doing. And man,theiresomee people were"I just can’t." And I tell them things like if you use the word “can’t”, you know, you need to look in the mirror. do you want to be one of those “can’t” people? I put it back on them saying, “Hey, you want to wear the shirt that says you’re a fucking loser? No you do,n’t. So don’t be a fucking loser and just try it. Because if you try it’s reallyat tough.” And I feel the same way about fasting, but I think part of… How about this, physicians have trouble with compliance when they just prescribe a pill. People forget or they’re lazy or they lose their bottle or they get it confused with their pet’s medication. So they just go, “Fuck it, throw all the pills away.” So osteoporosis was what got me in the life sintoences. Half of the reason the British government was helpful, it hosted clinical trials that happened at the University of East London and the Stratford Village surgery. Why was the NHS, the government, the British government, so… I mean, they went way out of their way to be helpful to me. And I was like, man, this is a huge bureaucracy. What, why would they be so helpful? And finally I m,et up with one of the top researchers in the country on osteoporosis and he said, “Our biggest problem is compliance. People go and use your medical device, but they won’t remember to take a pill. We don’t know what to do.” At this point, bisphosphonate drugs are, the patents have all run out. Sothey weree cheap. People won’t take them. They don’t. And they also feel awful after they take them. So they put it off, and that’s how it starts. ‘Ca,use there’s a lot of side effects of those. But they come and use the osteogenic loading equipment, no problem. Love it. They feel great. They feel energized after they do it, which I’m sure is no surprise to you. But it’s a surprise to them because most of these people have never exercised a day in their life, and they also have metabolic dysfunction. And they come and they do a real exercise intervention. It’s more just bone compression. I mean the movement is from here to here, millimeters of movement of the body, but tremendous forces. Thousands of pounds loaded thare rough the body, and all in an effort of bone compression to stimulate the bone matrix, to pull in minerals to decalcify, make the bone more powerful. People love doing it. And that’s why they were so accommodating. People want to do your thing, they don’t want to do and that’s why they’re helpful.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Kind of cool. ‘Cause you know, you kind of wonder is there a big conspiracy? Are the pharma companies going to pay the institutions to bury my technology? Hell no. The medical community does want to help people.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No, that’s good. And you have to sort of wonder if there’s a large government bureaucracy that’s helping you, like, “Oh, am I on the wrong side of this?” You know?

Dr. John Jaquish: I would say in our more recent times, I would say our governments are not on our side when it comes to health. They’re doing favors for their donors and whatever else. We probably can’t get into the weeds on that one, but there’s athere are complications revolving around some medications that we’re just not even allowed to discuss.

And if you’re not allowed to discuss it, something is being hidden from you.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Well that’s it. Yeah. If you have to shut down the conversation, obv

Dr. John Jaquish: There’s massive deception going on.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You can’t even discuss it. There was Iver Geber, who’s a Nobel Prize winner for his work on superconductors. And he actually gavseat on the American Physical Society and because they wereing they came out, they came out very dogmatically about something. They said, “This is settled science there, we will broach no discussion on this.” And he just said, and it’s not this way, it’s a previous no tno-touchue. And he said that-

Dr. John Jaquish: Like Statins 20 years ago?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Well like Statins, but more to do with the environment and climate change and things like that. They basically said the Physical society said “This is settled science and that anthropogenic climate change is what it said it is. And there’s no nuance, there’s no discussion at all that to be had. This is it.”

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s not science.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No, exactly. And so-

Dr. John Jaquish: And science is questioning everything.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Exactly. And-

Dr. John Jaquish: At all times.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. And so he just gave up his seat on the Physical Society and he said that this is a society that still to this day argues over the weight of a proton. And yet you are not allowed to even discuss this other thing. That’s ridiculous. If you can argue on tabout weight of a proton and be like, no, that’s bullshit, then you can argue about anything.

Dr. John Jaquish: You ever been to one of their parties?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: The Physical Society? No.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah,

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. No, I haven’t, Not personally.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. Me neither.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Let me get my note pack.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: I bet the bartenders at their parties are like, “Oh man, I’ve got the worst headache from hearing these people.”

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah, probably. So you were doing a carnivore diet for a while and obviously when you’re working with people you’re trying to just find a good fit for them. But what-

Dr. John Jaquish: Something that ,it’s just compliance.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Dr. John Jaquish: I do know that there are people that will go a hundred percent carnivore, and I mean when I redo all my nutrition recommendations, that’s going to be an option that I’m going to promote heavily. But I’d say 10% of the people are willing to even listen to that. And then the other 90%, it’s sad because it’s their self doself-doubtnot like they think it’s not safe or something like that. They might say that, but there’s a lot of doubt. They like eating and they’re like, “God going days without eating. How would I do that?” Well when you’re not carbohydrate addicted, you don’t think about eating. You talk about fasting with the average carnivore and they’re like, “Yeah, I could probably go a couple days w ofith no food. Cool. I’ll try that.” Yeah, when you try it, no sweat. But when somebody who eats a lot of carbohydrates tries it, a fucking misery.

Absolutely. Especially the first 12 hours.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Well that was the thing too. You know, were saying that one of the most heavily searched for phrases is how to lose weight without changing my diet. It’s like, how the hell do you think you’re going to do that?

Dr. John Jaquish: Anyone who would search for that is crazy. Your diet is why you are fat. If you’re overweight, that’s why. It’s what you’ve been putting in your mouth. And to think that there’s some way where you wouldn’t change tat, is insane.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Well it’s like looking up how to beat cocaine addiction without stopping cocaine use.

Dr. John Jaquish: There we go.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: And so-

Dr. John Jaquish: Sugar is more addictive than cocaine. There’s a great study on it. Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, I saw one Dr. Lustik from UCSF put out, where they’re looking at MRIs and you know, you hit a dopamine surge to the addiction centers of your brain. And there’s a study using MRIs and you would give an amphetamine dose to people, and they had control groups. So, you or I who wouldn’t consume any of these sorts of things, those areas would light up. And then someone who was addicted to methamphetamines who had killed off a lot of these parts of their brain had barely twinkle in the same areas. But then people who were metabolically unwell, who were sugar-addicted, they had the same barely twinkle.

So it was addictive in the same way as cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamines. And it killed the same areas of the brain as methamphetamines to the same extent as methamphetamines, which is absolutely terrifying. It’s a medical director in Amsterdam of all places. And he said that sugar was the worst drug on earth. This is people with a Red Light district who probably know a few things about drugs and he’s saying this is the worst drug on earth. I would probably agree with that. Just the fact that it’s in everything and we don’t realize it’s as bad as it is.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: You mentioned there was another study looking at fructose and cocaine, things like that. Was that a different study?

Dr. John Jaquish: We may be referencing the same thing. I listen, so I lived in the People’s Republic of San Francisco for 10 years and yeah, I got to see Lustik a couple of times.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Nice. Yeah, no, he’s a good guy.

Dr. John Jaquish: The guy’s just a treasure to society. I don’t think he’ll be appreciated. I feel like maybe in 20 years veganism will be in the same category as anorexia, or bulimia. It’s just instead of… Anorexics and bulimics, they think they’re healthy too. I like to point that out to people, so when they’re like, “Oh, that’s outrageous, you would say that.” Talk to a bulimic. They think they’re the healthiest people. Just because their problem is their view of themselves in the mirror, whereas I think a vegan’s problem is they surround themselves with other people who fit into their subculture, which just becomes kind of an information echo chambeThe subjectect probably of a book I’ll write years from now on subcultures, people really… You notice how you see a teenager and all of a sudden they become like emo. So they dress like their depressed friends, they get the same haircuts, they all use the same, fuck, I don’t know, just everything.

They’re up each other’s asses and they’re just clones of each other. Peolly like being part of a subculture. And when you see these overweight purple hair ladies at the grocery store who are bitching about everything, I need to see a manager sort of thing. And I don’t think that guy should be allowed to park in the parking lot that has a Trump sticker on the back of his car. Like, “Okay la,dy.” It’s a subculture. They fall into it and they do every little thing the same. And it makes me think that there’s some desire for a majority of the population. I think it’s the lower intelligence part of the population. To save them from having to think about things, they join a subculture then they don’t have anything to think about at all. They just do.

When you join a biker gang, pretty much the only T-shirt going to own is going to say Harley Davidson on it or your gang name. So you don’t have to worry about shirts anymore. You don’t have to worry about what your transportation is because there’s always going to be some bike. They do that so they can just go, “Fuck everything else. I’m just following these guys and whatever collective decision we make, whether it’s to be vegan or eat meat or all get the vaccine or what, it’s like we’re all going to be the same.” No thinking. And now with social media, it’s almost like that echo chamber is amplified. Because social media doesn’t have us to connect with people with differing opinions. Typically it connects us with people that have the same.. Nobody seems angry about this." And I’m like, “You don’t have a single liberal friend.”

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Right.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. I mean you designed it so that you don’t know what’s going on.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s just, I know who this Facebook friend are and Instagram friends are and they’re all his NRA buddies. Okay, well you do you. You have no idea what people are saying.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, well you sort of sit in your oubble and you don’t get outside of that. There was a story about that. There was someone from his New York Society, New York Times sort of things and there was some election at some point and the other people that they were going against, personally were rooting against, ended up winning and ended up winning mass… Or maybe it was Reagan or something like that. We had this landslide, 48 states and they just said, “How could he have possibly won? I don’t know anyone who voted for him.” It’s like-

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, I’m sure you don’t.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. But that shows just how isolated people can become. And that was before social media as well.

Dr. John Jaquish: Of course with social media it’s worse now. Way worse now.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. I was going to say, so what do you do now as… Oh sorry, go on.

Dr. John Jaquish: Well I actua question for you. Different guys who promote carnivores just have different answers to this question. But is there ever a point where you get to, where you think carnivore has just…Like you need a break from it? I hear tha, people say, “Oh, keto only works for a certain period of time.” I’ll say, “Well I don’t know about that. I haven’t seen that study. But I know calorie restriction only works for a certain period of time because you have a metabolic adaptation.” Ketosis is a system of the body. And I’ve never heard about it failing over some time for any particular reason. And I haven’t been able to find the research. I just get the question a lot. And I think it’s just some vegan bullshit that somebody made up. Does this ever happen to you? I was a hundred percent carnivore for a whole year. I mean, was the leanest I’ve ever been, I’m stronger now, but I was strong. Stronger than I had ever been.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Up to that point. So I’m just curious like anything with that?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No, no. For me, no. I mean I’ve been doing this solidly for five years. I was doing it solidly for five years in early twmy enties. And I’ve just never, ever felt better in my entire life. I’ve never had an issue with that. I’ve seen some professor OrkayOkaywas talking about this evolution of different sort osortsrnivore gurus or influencers or whatever, doctors who are now saying that, “Oh actually you can’t survive without carbohydrates. You have to take intake carbohydrates.” WhichWe from biochemistry background and they should really knowe they’ve taken biochemistry you don’t need that. You know, you will make all the carbohydrates and so forth that you need. But they were having problems after about a year, and they were having hormonal issues and electrolyte issues and whatever. And they decided, because they looed at small, mechanistic studies saying, “Oh look at this, there’s this little pathway in response in your kidneys and this has something to do with your microtubules and resorbing electrolytes. And that’s what it is. I don’t have enough carbohydrates.” Well first of all, you ,have carbohydrates, your blood sugar is where it’s supposed to be and you have glycogen. And so if you needed carbohydrates to make this function properly, it’s already there. But they were saying that must be it. And so they started incorporating sugar-

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Just drinking orange juice and eating honey and fruit. And that was something that they thought was good for them. Forgetting to realize that there are people like myself, like Dr. Baker, like countless other people who have not only been doing this for several years, but several decades, and then entire populations who have been doing this generationally. And they have never in their life consumed carbohydrates, some of these people. And that’s something that’s well recognized by various scientific and medical institutions saying that the requirement of carbohydrates, lifelong reqthe uirement for carbohydrates is zero. That is a well estwell-

Dr. John Jaquish: Still in the nutrition guide printed by the AMA.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, yeah. And-

Dr. John Jaquish: Still there.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: So they were doing something differently, obviously. If tng problems after a year or so that I’m not having, or you weren’t having, or Baker wasn’t having, or the Inuits never have, well obviously there’s something different going on there. They thought that this was lack of carbohydrates, but wa e were all lacking carbohydrates and we were thriving and he wasn’t. So it’s something else. It’s not the carbohydrates. Maybe tfeel better on carbohydrates, but that’s going to be a side, that’s not addressing the underlying issues. So no, I don’t, just looking… Anthropological data and the fossil record and biologically, I think all the best evidence shows that we realcarnivores as a species. That our…

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: … shows that we really are res as a species, that the type of animal that we are biologically is carnivore. Eating a meat your entire life is not going to cause detriment by definition, because that being our evolved diet, if that is our evolved diet, and I think that evidence strongly supports that. You cannot live generationally in that state without carbohydrates if that’s not going to be optimal. If lack of exogenoua s carbohydrates is going to cause hormonal dysfunction or electrolyte dysfunction, you’re going to know about it. If you have the Inuit, and I like using the-

Dr. John Jaquish: It could also be universal. It’ll happen to everybody.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. You know what?-

Dr. John Jaquish: Let me just take one little sidetrack here. The whole, “Everyone is different, find out what’s right for you.” That’s some bullshit that somebody came, that’s marketing.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s excusing the person who just won’t take whatever, or it gives them heartburn or something like that. Everyone is not fucking different. We all have one heart. We have the same skin. It functions the same. It’s not like somebody’s skin, they absorb water through it is another thing I saw recently.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: If you bathe too much, you absorb water through your skin. Oh, really? Pretty sure it’s a oone-waystreet and it’s out, not in.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Right.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: You’d get chlorine poisoning every time you went swimming.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Fuck.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Okay.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Those are waffle words that were developed by pharmaceutical companies so that they didn’t have to call you a bitch if you didn’t want to take their medication. If you didn’t like the side effects, it’s like, “Oh, okay, well, that wasn’t right for you,” because we treat everybody like they’re a child in healthcare.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Assuming they’re stupid as a child, too, which is I think a large problem with healthcare. It’s like no one wants to be educated. They just want to be told what to do. Yeah, bullshit, a lot of people do want to be educated.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I think it’s very condescending. Just, oh, they jon’t understand. They just don’t want … It’s like, how do you know that? Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: There is a video out there. I mean, I copied it. I actually did a screen recording. That’s how excited I was.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Bill Maher, who’s somebody I normally don’t care for, was talking about how misled some people are by some of the medical information that’s out there. He’s like, “When I think about the medical community, the arrogance of don’t question us, we’re going to tell you what to do.” He says, “Well, here’s the problem. This is me to the medical community.” This is him talking to the medical community. He says, “You’re wrong a lot, a lot. There aSome drugs geted by the FDA and then pulled by the FDA.”

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: We’re not allowed to even ask what percentage gets pulled.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Some groups estimated something like 75% of drugs-

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Oh, wow…. that have been cleared, been approved, then later been … where’s Seldane? That was when we were kids. That was the allergy medication. Well, it causes arrhythmia, so it just quietly disappeared, but there’s only a press release when they launch a new drug, not when it disappears.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Right. He’s talking about the irritation that the medical community has with the population. When the population starts asking questions like, “Why would I need to take a vaccine that doesn’t stop people from getting it and doesn’t stop me from spreading it?”

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Like that question. Yeah,

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s apparently inappropriate.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: I think that’s completely appropriate. Why would I take something that has a risk of death when the two things that we care about it doing it don’t do either of those things.

?r. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, or you don’t have long term safety data. I mean, the thing is not being allowed as-

Dr. John Jaquish: Or that, which, we’re supposed to be promised via FDA approval, but they can just say it’s going to be rush status, so we’re not just going to do any of those studies at all.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, you should always ask questions. People may think that’s unreasonable, but it’s not unreasonable. This is your life. You only have one of them. You don’t get a reset button. You can’t go back and just say, “Oh, well if I had to do it again, I would do that.” Well, you don’t have that option, so you do need to think critically about things and you do need to ask questions. I think that that’s important for people to do that and that I hope they continue to do that. Just going back to your point about everyone being different and how sort of absurd that is. I totally agree with that. I talk to people about this and I start making my arguments and they try to go one way or the other. They said, “Well, everyone’s different. Everyone has a different whatever.” I’m like, “Nope. Nope. We are one species with the same animal. We’re hyper evolving-”

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, pour acid on me, pour acid on you, same result.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: We’re homo sapien sapiens. We are very, very closely genetically linked. We’ve been essentially the same for about 300,000 years genetically. There’s minor adaptations here and there, but from just an overall animal perspective, we are the same. We’ve been the same for hundreds of thousands of years. They’ll just not think about it, but just be, “Oh, no, no, no, no.” Because these things just get repeated and repeated and repeated. They think that that has some sort of merit where, in fact, most of these things, it just came … Multiple examples that you’ve said. He’s like, well, where have these things came from. They came from complete nonsense or just marketing. My argument back to them-

Dr. John Jaquish: Who said, “You say a lie a thousand times, it becomes the truth?”

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Hitler.

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, no, it’s Frederick Goebbels who was

Dr. John Jaquish: … propaganda.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: … propagandist. Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: I mean, it’s just like.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: The Nazis, anyway.

Dr. John Jaquish: That is applied by governments all over the world. They just keep the lie going and then people just start to believe it.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Make the lie, make it big, and keep repeating it until people believe it. The other one was accuse your enemy of what you are doing so that when they say, “Oh, actually no, you are doing it.” You just say, “That’s retaliation.” People project all the time. My response when people say that, “No, no, no, no, everyone’s just different,” blah, blah, blah. I say, “Okay. Will you point out to me one example in nature where you have two members of the same species who have different optimal diets?” I’ll wait. I’ve yet to have someone answer that.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s a great question. I love that question.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Oh, I think it sort of boils it down because, it wouldn’t make sense biologically. Especially something so drastically different from being carnivore to being vegan or vegetarian. How is that? Most animals-

Dr. John Jaquish: So different.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly. There’s plenty of instances where herbivores eat meat. They’ll eat small animals that run by and do just fine. That has all the-

Dr. John Jaquish: Gorillas eat monkeys.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Chimpanzees, as well.

Dr. John Jaquish: Chimps, it’s chimps. It’ll eat smaller monkeys.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: They’ll eat more. Yeah, they’ll eat more than that. Funny enough, there’s a National Geographic picture of chimps in certain areas like hunting with spears. It’s like, oh dude, Planet of the Apes is on its way which is pretty funny.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: You don’t actually need to be especially adapted to eat meat, because meat has all the nutrients that we’re trying to make. What are we trying to do when we eat? We’re trying to build and maintain meat? What has all the nutrients that we need? Meat. You have to be specially adapted to get those same nutrients from plants, which is very hard to do. You have to be able to break down cellulose, first and foremost, if you’re eating fibrous plants. That’s not really something-

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: … that you’re going to see in a lot of people. You have one spe … When I say to people, the Inuits live as carnivores and there’s no question of that. These people live up in the North Pole. There are no plants to eat. There is no honey to eat. There is no fruit to eat. If these were required essential ingredients to life, they would be dead.

Dr. John Jaquish: They’d die.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Exactly. Then you’re going through the ice ages, which we’ve done five times in the last few million years, a lot of the world was covered in ice and glaciers. There were no plants to eat. The majority of people did not have access to plants. This is thought to be why we actually went full carnivore because we didn’t have the ability to eat any plants at that point. We were already eating the animals.

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, also, I got something I want to add to that, in nature, how many vegetables and fruits do you just trip over? The vegetables and fruits that we have are genetically engineered to be cheap food. I’ll just, when some of these idiots arguing on me. I just post a picture of Yosemite and I’m like, “Point to all the vegetables.” That is something you would see a thousand years ago. Just a valley with trees and shit, lakes, rivers. Where are all the vegetables?

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Fucking nowhere. Vegetables were engineered. Before corn became cultivated, it was just unheard of. It had to be. There’s Baker’s joke, “I’ve never seen a cave painting of a farm with vegetables on it or somebody making salad.” A lot of cave paintings of hunting, though.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, quite a few.

Dr. John Jaquish: They hunted. That’s all they did.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Exactly. That’s what people say, “We were hunter gatherers.” I’m like, “Yeah, drop the gatherers part.” When we had to, sure. You look at different historical records of western cultures going into Australia or North America, they marveled at how they just lived as carnivores, they only ate meat. They were saying, “Even in the northern reaches in what’s now Canada…” I was reading an excerpt from a journal, that some guy wrote, at the time, in the early 1500’s. He was saying that people were just eating meat and he was just like, “That’s pretty crazy.” They were extremely healthy, extremely fit. They looked just physically beautiful. They were statuesque. He said that it was just a bit crazy. He said he understood it for the people more north where it’s living in the permafrost all the time. You got to do what you got to do. He said people more in the southern New England areas, three months out of the year, it defrosted. They said that surely they could live off the bounty of the land during those three months, but they don’t. They just ate meat and there’s a lot of records there and in Australia where people were again just blown away by this. They all said that in times of starvation, they knew which plants they could eat to survive on and that they could use medicinally. When they didn’t need them, when they had meat available, they didn’t touch it. People look at and say, “Oh well, the Native Americans or native Australians, they ate this and they ate this and they ate this and they ate this and they would make a broth out of this and they make tea out of that and blah blah, blah, blah, blah.” When did they do it? How often did-

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: … they do it? Was that a daily occurrence? No, that was when they were starving to death or when they were using it medicinally. That is what all the original source data shows. Every time I find one of these books from an explorer who’s written about their travels , I always pick it up and I always look through it and-

Dr. John Jaquish: You should write that up and reference it.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’d be great for people to read.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Well, I can probably put them up there. I have some of the books. There’s one in particular that I didn’t buy a book. I should have. I will probably, but I just took pictures of all the pages so I could read it later. It’s a whole chapter just on the diet of the native Australians. They were just marveling how they just only ate meat. Most-

Dr. John Jaquish: I’m sure you’ve seen the documentary by Pete Evans.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Is that the magic pill?

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, that’s it. He goes through the aboriginal tribes and interviews them. They got all kinds of problems. They’re all sick. He puts them on an all meat diet and then everything goes away. That’s weird.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, well-

Dr. John Jaquish: They’re like, “Yeah, this is how our ancestors ate.” They know.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Exactly. I’m in Australia at the moment. When I first got here, it was expressed to me, when you are treating a native Australian patient that you look at their age and you add 20 because that’s how fast they age. That’s how quickly they break down. If you’re treating someone who’s 40 years old, you treat them as a 60 year ol60-year-oldhat’s the …

Obviously diseases ,and issues come and peaks at different points in your life. They seem to get these things a lot earlier than other people do. They’re just breaking down. That’s the cohort that is eating a western diet and living on this crap that’s harmful to you and drinking alcohol and smoking, I’m sure. The main thing is the food. I remember learning as a kid, I just heard it on the news or something like that.

It was just that studies have shown that when eating a western diet, Native Americans were four times as likely to get obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, all theseand modern diseases. I remember thinking like, “Well, doesn’t that mean that the food is causing the disease?” Because if they don’t eat the food, they don’t get the disease. We eat the food and we get the disease, we just get it at a lower rate.

What is a non-western diet? What are they eating that we’re not and vice versa? They don’t tell you at the time, but it was pure a high-fat carnivore. That’s the same in Australia. That’s what they ate. I’ve spoken to anybody whenever I can, that is in the hospital for different issues and this comes up, especially with the native population, and we talk about it. I just say, “Hey, this is where I’m coming from.”

Like you say, they aalwayslike, “Yeah, that’s what we all used to eat when I was a kid and everyone was lean and strong and healthy and no one had any of these problems.” He was just like, “Huh.” There are still people living like that. TThere arestill people living quite naturally and just eating meat and kangaroos the , same as they always would. I’m sure they’re incorporating other things as well.

Dr. John Jaquish: Good news is when you’re in Australia, kangaroo is cheap.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, it is. Well, it’s a pass.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah. They’re a nuisance. Everybody wants them blown away. I had a hell of a time finding kangaroo meat. I was going to nice steak houses. I’m like, “Where’s your kangaroo?” They’re like, “Not this kind of place.”

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: No.

Dr. John Jaquish: You go to more like a Texas Roadhouse sort of spot equivalent in Australia. That’s where you find the kangaroo and it’s not bad.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Well, the thing is too, you can only find certain cuts of the kangaroo. They’ll do the filet mignon, the back straps, of the kangaroo because people are so obsessed with lean meat down here. That was a big thing when I first got down here. It was just lean, lean, lean. Well, because they took it to heart that fat and cholesterol are bad for you and they cause heart disease.

I think that’s perfectly reasonable. If you do believe the data and you do believe the recommendations that cholesterol causes heart disease and this is bad for you. There’sIf there’sefit nutritionally, then yeah, you should cut it out. You know, should get rid of that crap. And that that, So as a market and a society, they’ve really done that pretty well here. The problem is it’s deadass wrong. The kangaroey just do the back straps because they’re just totally lean. Most of these things are pretty lean anyway because they’re just living naturally. They’re not being grain fed or whatever. ApThetails have more fat and that’s what the aboriginals will eat. That’s the most prized part. They’ll take the back straps off. They’ll sell it in the grocery stores and-

Dr. John Jaquish: The white man and then they’ll eat for sure.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: … they’ll take the tails and they’ll actually just ship them out and just give them to aboriginal communities just to have. The rest of it, they just grind down for dog food. That’s how they use kangaroos here. I’ve been trying my ass off to get some kangaroo tails. I was talking to some of these guys. We’re talking about meat and just eating animals in general and not eating the other stuff. He said, “Yeah, and you know what the most important part is the fat.” He said that to me and I was like, “Damn right it is.”

He was saying, “That’s why we eat the tails. The tails have the most fat. That’s the best part.” After the conversation, he’s like, “Yeah, I’m going to talk to my nephew and have him send me some kangaroo tails. I’m going to get on this.”

It’s good to see. You see dramatic differences when people go on a carnivore diet, especially when they have these chronic issues, autoimmune issues, diabetes certainly, but it is most dramatic in these genetic populations who have not had the exposure to agriculture that our ancestors would’ve had. That’s why they’re four times as likely to get these problems than people of western descent would because we had the agricultural revolution eight to 10,000 years ago.

We’ve had some genetic adaptations and protections against the this poisonous sorts of foods that they don’t have. They get much more hit by the toxic elements in these foods and then you take that away and it just goes away. I found that that’s probably one of the strongest tools in my arsenal as a doctor of getting people better and actually just keeping them better.

That’s really what I think is the main thing to do in medicine at. John, I’m just conscious of the time here, I don’t want to take up your whole night.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, I do need to take off.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Okay. Well, I appreciate you coming on and ho,pefully-

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s fine.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. An absolute pleasure to meet you and talk with you. I’m glad we were able to set this up and I would like to bring you back some other time and really get into the nitty gritty with your X3 and your fitness program and really how people can best address optimizing muscle growth and athletic performance as well, which is something you’re very well versed on. If you’re able to.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah, I’ll absolutelys is good.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Okay. Awesome.

Dr. John Jaquish: Well, now that we’ve figured out a good time that works for both of us.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: Me being in California, you being in Australia.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It was tough, but we figured it out.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: We must thank our friend Josh.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, absolutely Josh.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yep. Yeah, man, he was like, we wanted uer on video. I appreciate his enthusiasm and commitment and persistence-

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: … because he listens to both of us a lot.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It was funny because this is a great conversation. Josh was about right.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. that’s the thing. . You just keep plugging away.

Dr. John Jaquish: Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Great.

Dr. John Jaquish: Thanks to Josh.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: What’s the best place for people to find you and look at your work and take a look at your offers?

Dr. John Jaquish: Probably my landing page is, D, O, C, T, O, R, the letter J,.com. There are links to our links on YouTube. I do the most on Instagram. I’m starting to do some stuff on TikTok, but I hate the platform.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: So do I. Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s like, let me educate you in 15 seconds.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s just a kind ADD video here video threesome gearea dodestructionIt’s girls taking their clothes off and funny stuff, like cars rolling down a hill or exploding toilets or ju, st weird humor.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: When you’re talking about science, it’s weird. There are some days where it seems very efficient and there are days where it’s like, wow, I’m just wasting my time here.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: It’s funny because I’ll have 20,000 views on Instagram yet I have more followers on TikTok and some of my videos get like 200.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Weird.

Dr. John Jaquish: Actually, that’s an exaggeration. Probably the lowest one is like 800.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Okay.

Dr. John Jaquish: Then you see the girl who just has 50 videos of her running around in her underwear and-

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Lights it up.

Dr. John Jaquish: … each one is millions of views.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. John Jaquish: That’s what this is here for then.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah. Exactly. All right. Cool. Well, I’ll put those all in the show notes as well and I’ll try to get this up in the next week or so. I know Josh will be, I don’t think I could delay it more than that. I think Josh might-

Dr. John Jaquish: Oh, he’d kill us both.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah, exactly. He told me, “As soon as this is out, you got to send it to me. I read it.” Maybe I’ll just screw with him and just say it’s coming out in a month or something like that and just watch the fireworks and then pepper it out as an early birthday present.

Dr. John Jaquish: Don’t involve me in that.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Cool. Right. Well John, thank you want watchWantsbsolutely been a pleasure and hopefully, we’ll ha have you on again and we’ll talk some more about getting buff.

Dr. John Jaquish: Awesome, Anthony.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: Cool.

Dr. John Jaquish: Have a good night.

Dr. Anthony Chaffee: You too. Catch you later.

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